what would you recomend as a good second syrian show line

[Matty Day]

I thought I would ask this question what is the best colour for a second Syrian show line?

I have decided in a few years down the line to maybe to start a second Syrian show line if everything goes to plan my initial plan was to get a lilac line going ( I now the difficulties and what is involved with this).

Now if this is not possible I thought I would look at some other colours that I like and se what you guys think would be best.
I like
Dark grey
Mink
Silver grey
Dove
Golden
Cinnamon
rust
sable or cream roans
Now assuming the show standard is accepted for minks and doves
What would you s recommend as a good second show colour?

[Basia]

Did you want a completely different colour type Matty?
I notice you have sable and cream roan in your list and if you are starting off with creams, then sable and roans can all be bred in with creams.

[I_am_plankton]

to be honest I think it is best not to jump the gun and just go with the flow as opposed to having a "plan" since with having so few litters you can't really do much. and yes you can have a line going but with so few people having their own established lines fully fledged it would be hard for a small scale breeder to create that.

I wouldn't over-complicate things Matty otherwise you won't be able to concentrate on getting things right

[Spuds Mum]

Well Matty obviously you have thought about the standards thing, so I would say a good idea would be to get something that can show in another class (so your hams wouldn't be against each other in a class) but it would also be useful to get something that could also complement your original line.

Just as an example, if you chose golden for your first line, then goldens carrying black often do better for showing as the black will darken the cheekflashes etc.

Your second line then could also be a black line. You could then cross the two lines when you wanted, say for example you wanted to improve the type of your blacks and you have a golden carrying black that has great type.

Is it cream you are going for for your first line? If so, then sable or mink (if standardised, and this could take some years if it happens) would be good as again, the genetics are compatible and you could get a mix of good pups in both litters.

Or you could just decide to add in an extra to your original line, like satins (show in a different class) or banded/roan (patterned class ) although patterning is a hard thing to get right for showing.

The one thing I would advise (learnt through hard experience myself) is to concentrate firstly on really getting your first line going and healthy and then see where you want to go from there.

Just as advice i havent taken myself I would tend to steer clear of the harder gene types, such as dark grey in early days, and I would also be wary of the silver grey. Though they are lovely, this gene is highly dominant, so you need to be careful breeding this into other varieties.

If it was just for personal choice, I would go mink and I do wish it was standard. I really love minks, and the way the colour changes and deepens as the ham gets older is lovely. But until it is, if showing is your plan, then I wouldnt have this as a full second line.

[Bourne Valley Hams]

To start with, I have to respond to your assumption that dove and mink will become standard colours with 'Don't hold your breath!' - this has been talked about for at least 10 years to my knowledge and it hasn't happened yet.
A lot of people tend to start showing with creams and sables, with patterns and satins for variation. The reasoning behind this is that creams generally have a long show life, good show standard stock is easily obtained, and more creams win shows than any other colour. The downside is that there is generally a lot of competition in the cream classes. Having said that, creams have always been, and will always be, in the majority in my hamstery because of their beauty and fabulous temperament.
OK then, to look at your list.
Dark Grey. - Few and far between so hard to find good breeding stock. Even harder to find good breeding stock that doesn't throw out kinked tailed babies. Animals tend to be on the small side. Can brown very quickly so tend to have a short show life. On the plus side, a good dark grey is stunning.
Mink - non-standard, and I think likely to remain non-standard. Great as an extra colour to breed with creams and sables.
Silver Grey. - I love them. Lovely temperament, very popular with the public so easy to rehome babies. From a showing point of view, very subjective. Different judges like their silvers to look either light or dark, heavy ticking or light. A hamster that wins one show may well come way down the table with the next judge. Limited number of breeders so a real struggle to not get your lines inbred. Not very compatible with other colours on the whole so difficult to get a range of colours in litters without diminishing the quality of the silvers. I do however breed some quite passable black eyed whites and ivories alongside my silvers and have dabbled with silver grey blondes in the past.
Dove - as mink, and you need to find a nice black in order to breed one!
Golden. A good shorthaired golden is fabulous. But one of the hardest colours to get right! Longhaired goldens rarely look anything like as good as a shorthaired. A great colour to specialise in but you would have your work cut out.
Cinnamons. - Beautiful if you get it right. Can be temperamental. Females can be very fragrant when in season.
Rust. Tricky colour to get good show stock and unpredictable show results. Not really one for a novice.
Sable. Lovely temperament. Short show life. Great to breed with creams to give variety in litters.
Cream Roans. Not as stunning as sable roans and much less likely to be show winners, but great for variety as above.

[Matty Day]

Everything is going to change in a few years im not going to be under the same limits and restrictions I am under now the plan is not set in stone im relay just gaudging peoples ideas and seeing what they think of course I am taking into accont that things may change as the old saying goes the best laid plans of mice and men


And the best thing is I have got plenty of time to sit on this and make mind up fully and just see how things go on the Syrian side

If it goes as well as the Chinese side is going id be pleased as punch

[Spuds Mum]

Yes its a good idea to be thinking and planning things in advance Matty, as you say, things do change, and as long as you are not running away with yourself, as I am sure you will have plenty to occupy yourself over the next few years with studying etc.

You have lots of time to think about it, and to really see where you want to go, with your new chinese breeding, and also with planning on beginning a first syrian line.

I think you are very wise to ask others views, especially people like Sue who have so much experience and can really give good advice, I certainly take every chance I can to 'extract knowledge' from those more experienced and successful breeders! I am just so happy that hamster people seem so ready to share their knowledge and information, as not all 'fancies' are like this at all!

[Yaffle]

lol I would agree about cinnie females being 'fragrant'
I've ju

[Yaffle]

*just been scented!

Really can't get the hang of this laptop

[Matty Day]

well under current agreements the time i would be looking at a full second line would be 2 years when im aloowed to increase numbers to 14 max 6 syrians 6 chinese 2 spare

i relay do like the idea of incorparting a second colour into the main line and i am certunly going to keep that in mind for the future patuicularly if mink and dove is standardized as cream is my colour

i do enjoy showing but its is noy my prority to tell you the truth thought i always keep showing in mind. id rather go with a colour i like rather than one i dont just for showings sake