Help! No ratration mix for hamsters until further notice- any advice what now?

[slatted]

Originally Posted by lucyeleanor

It does seem like it. Does anybody know why RR have discontinued the mix?

RR say there have been concern raised and they are only selling via phone whilst they check with the suppliers in case they have changed anything. They have not discontinued yet.

I would point out that what they say on their rat mixtures is also that rats cannot exist on them alone and need supplements and they are still being sold online so it may be an issue in some mixes where they are not processed in such a way as to "add" vitamins etc?...do we really believe that most commercial mixes do not "add" vitamins?

As an aside, has anyone looked at what is showing under Silver's name on old posts now? It is no longer "the mix maker"...

[suga]

Originally Posted by souffle

People may choose to leave temporarily or permanently as they wish or may just choose not to post and we respect these choices.
Please remain on topic on the thread.

Originally Posted by slatted

As an aside, has anyone looked at what is showing under Silver's name on old posts now? It is no longer "the mix maker"...

Please note the post previously made by Souffle in relation to staying on topic. The individual status of forum members is irrelevant in this discussion.

[Gamina]

Originally Posted by slatted

RR say there have been concern raised and they are only selling via phone whilst they check with the suppliers in case they have changed anything. They have not discontinued yet.

I would point out that what they say on their rat mixtures is also that rats cannot exist on them alone and need supplements and they are still being sold online so it may be an issue in some mixes where they are not processed in such a way as to "add" vitamins etc?...do we really believe that most commercial mixes do not "add" vitamins?

As an aside, has anyone looked at what is showing under Silver's name on old posts now? It is no longer "the mix maker"...

Yes Rats are largely fed on straights with a supplemented diet but that does not necessarily mean that the supplements come in a bottled form in the case of rats. Because of the nature of a rats diet well over 50% can be made up from fresh foods so as long as you are feeding a balanced diet alongside straight grains they do not need a supplement. This is made easier by books like the Shumanite Diet book that give far more detailed findings on what vitamins and minerals are needed in a rats diet and what foods are rich in each vitamin. I feel far more confident in feeding my rats on straights just because of the huge variety of other stuff they can eat.

One of my boys began to experience rusting in his coat and immediately I knew this was a copper deficiency so added to the weekly food cycle for my boys is liver and a wider variety of nuts, after a week his coat rusting improved.

Commercial mixes can and do add vitamins that legally they have no need to declare in animal foodstuffs on the ingredients list.This will help to ensure that there is a full vitamin range without the need for a small animal vitamin supplement. They will also add oils which all constitute to the vitamin/ minerals that would not be in a straights diet. I wouldn't feel confident feeding my hamster on straights knowing how limited what they can actually eat is (when I compare to rats for example) and not knowing what deficiencies lead to what kind of ill health signs in my hamster. I also know a lot of rat breeders try and test over many years to find the right diet and can adapt it at different times in a rats life so more detailed information is out there... I on the other hand could only make a best educated guess at what hamsters need at different points in their lives and wouldn't want to risk it.

As such my rats get fed a rat rations mix for around 50% of there food intake and the rest is fresh fruit, veg, meat, fish etc. All our happy healthy (though lazy!) old men now. My hamsters are fed a mixture of 2 commercial mixes and my local pet stores budgie seed mix, a rat rations scatter mix and small amounts of fruit and veg daily with occasional treats like chicken or egg.

[racinghamster]

I was always aware that RATS need supplimentation to their diets due to the lack of copper in many rat foods and a few other things that rats require, but I`ve never heard the same about hamsters or other smaller furries myself. So if RRations are now saying their hamster mixes are lacking something but are still selling it with the intention of informing buyers about adding `suppliments`, I`m not sure the mix should be sold in light of this error? I was concerned about the raw lentils within their mixes having done some quick research on the subject, but after some heated discussion, I thought it best to drop the conversation because some people will always believe that it`s okay to feed raw lentils even though they contain a substance that can cause weight loss and the absorbtion of other nutrients. Soaking lentils and some other grains makes them safer.

I just can`t justify their postage costs either unless purchasing a lot of products in one order, so that prevented me from using the RR mixes from day one.

[Gamina]

But is that just because the Rat Rations mix is a straight mix and as far as I am aware no other commercial hamster mixes are straight mixes so they wouldn't need a supplement. Before rat rations mixes I was also unaware of anyone selling a straight mix for hamsters...What I mean is because rats have been fed straight mixes for a long time people are more aware about what is needed. Whereas its not the norm for people to feed a straight mix to a hamster so lots of people buying a complete mix would have little idea about supplementing straight mixes.

[HorseyMandz]

It says that you can still order it by telephone So, if anyone wants it then...

[shiny]

Originally Posted by Gamina

But is that just because the Rat Rations mix is a straight mix and as far as I am aware no other commercial hamster mixes are straight mixes so they wouldn't need a supplement. Before rat rations mixes I was also unaware of anyone selling a straight mix for hamsters...What I mean is because rats have been fed straight mixes for a long time people are more aware about what is needed. Whereas its not the norm for people to feed a straight mix to a hamster so lots of people buying a complete mix would have little idea about supplementing straight mixes.

I think you're certainly right about there being no other similar mixes to the RR mix so I guess the debate over whether to supplement or not is a new one as it hasn't so much come up before.

[racinghamster]

Yes, that could be right Gamina. Like the Shunamite principle, it`s all about getting a good balance rather than nutritional perfection, so I guess any straights mix uses it`s ingredients as a foundation for new additions to be changed or added to. Each ingredient should have a nutritional table, like oats will be this percent of fibre and fat and millet seed will have a certain fibre and fat and so on and so on...

But once all the ingredients are included in a mix, these then need a calculation in terms of volume to balance them out, which would probably baffle the best of us! I still don`t understand the maths behind all of that which is why many of us just predict those amounts and try and feed variety and tweek it from time to time.

[njwilde]

Wow, I didnt realise I opened a can of worms with this thread, all I wanted for my hammies was their favourite food. I had been mixing three different food ( and fruit and veg and treats) anyway but it was the RR that was their favourite so I didnt want to deprive them.

If all though, I learned about more food like the JD farm I had never heard about or hazel hamster so I get mixing. And teh grain/seed to mix with HH sounds great and like my hammies and meeces cup of tea too

So thanks everyone for their replies and I hope maybe others have found some new tips too as I was also under the impression the majority of us uses RR as main food.

[GhostsInSnow]

JR Farm also do a mouse feast too