what colour parents

ilovemyhammies · 05-08-2008, 01:45 PM

what colour parents would i need to produce, or the parents to produce dove coloured babies ?
and if i had one longhaired parent mated to a short haired, would it be 50% chance of longhaired babies?

internet_nobody · 05-08-2008, 01:55 PM

lh is recessive, so you need your short haired to carry it. Dove is black + cinnie.

ilovemyhammies · 05-10-2008, 03:50 PM

would blACK and cinnie produce 100% dove babies? or a mixture of other colours?

Bunsey · 05-10-2008, 03:57 PM

no, not 100% doves. some goldens too i'd imagine.

ilovemyhammies · 05-10-2008, 03:59 PM

thanks bunsey

nooboo · 05-10-2008, 05:22 PM

two doves would give all dove babies

one dove to a black carrying cinnie would give 50% dove and 50% black

one dove to a cinnie carrying black would give 50% dove and 50% cinnie

two blacks carrying cinnie would give 25% dove 75%
black (with 50% carrying cinnie of those blacks)

two cinnies carrying black would produce 25% dove 75% cinnie (with 50% carrying black of those cinnies)

one black carrying cinne to a cinnie carrying black would produce 25% dove 25% cinnie 25% black 25% golden, but those goldens would carry black and cinnie

if the parents were both black without cinnie or cinnie without black there wouldnt be any doves, same true if you have a cinnie that doesnt carry black to a black that doesnt carry cinnie.

same is true if only one side is either black or cinnie without carrying the other and the other hamster does carry both, or is dove.

so for 100% dove you need two doves. for any doves both parents need to at least both carry both black and cinnie.

note this is only true if these are the only recessives in play...if the hamsters share other recessives the results will be different.

**Spuds Mum** · 05-10-2008, 05:28 PM

Ive just pmd ILMH about this, but didnt see this post, so I'll post it here too.

If you had a 'pure' black hamster (aa) and a 'pure' cinnamon hamster (pp) that you mated - you would not get any dove pups in the litter. To show that a recessive colour gene is not carried, we show it in upper case, to show it's carried, in lower case.

Dove is black (aa) X cinnamon (pp) yes, so genetically it is aapp, and that means that each dove pup needs to inherit a black gene from each parent, and a cinnamon gene from each parent. In the first mating, you would get a litter of golden hamsters that would all carry one black gene (a) and one cinnamon gene (p). this is shown genetically as ++AaPp so we are not yet at the stage of producing doves, but we are closer to it.

Now, leaving aside the discussion on rights and wrongs of inbreeding as we are only talking theoretically here - if you were to take two of the litter and mate them together then each parent would give one colour gene of each colour to each pup. for example, they would give either A (non black) or a (black) - the same with cinnamon (non cinnamon P/cinnamon p).

So at this next mating you would have the possibility of having the following in the litter

aaPp = black carrying cinnamon
aaPP = pure black
AAPP = pure golden
AaPp = golden carrying black and cinnamon
AAPp = golden carrying cinnamon
Aapp = cinnamon carrying black
AApp = pure cinnamon
aapp = dove

obviously to look at the litter you wouldn't necessarily know which pups were carrying what, so you would just see a mix of golden, black, cinnamon and dove. Approximately 12.5% of the litter would be expected to be dove.

If you were to start off with one dove parent mated to either a cinnamon or a black, you could increase the percentages of dove expected in the future litter. Its the same for both colours but just as an example, lets take a black (aa) mated to a dove (aapp)..

In the first litter you would get

aaPp = black carrying cinnamon 100% of the litter

(or if it was a cinnamon mated to the dove it would be cinnamon carrying black of course)

Mating two of the litter would give you

aaPP = pure black (25%)
aaPp = black carrying cinnamon (50%)
aapp = dove (25%)

sorry thats a bit of a long post - but just shows the process of taking two 'base' colours and mixing them to get a new colour. I hope it helps.

Mollz Mum · 05-11-2008, 08:29 AM

OMG. When Molly explained the basics, I felt confused, but now I'm TOTALLY confused

. I think I'll continue to leave the genetics to her and continue with -
AW, that one's pretty LOL

**Spuds Mum** · 05-11-2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollz' Mum

OMG. When Molly explained the basics, I felt confused, but now I'm TOTALLY confused

. I think I'll continue to leave the genetics to her and continue with -
AW, that one's pretty LOL

Its probably the way I'm explaining it MM - sorry - didnt mean to confuse you!

Its just that, creating combination colours is not like mixing paint i.e. you cant take a yellow hamster and a blue hamster and get green babies (which is I think the question asked above re the black and cinnamon)

both parents have to carry all the necessary genes to make the new colour (unless the gene is dominant then only one does).

Hmmm now Ive probably made it even worse - going to shut up now and leave it to Mollz to explain

Mollz Mum · 05-11-2008, 08:52 AM

Damn. and I really wanted that green baby !!

It's definately not your explaining, I promise, just me trying to get my head around it - I can work out (just) one level of what to put together (if Mollz is there to prompt me), but beyond that, I just lose it. I'm putting it down to my age......sigh!