Pickle's Thread

[Ria P]

You can still suggest and request a maintenance dose of baytril in an email and keep him on metacam as well.

Like you say, there is no solution and it looks like unfortunately, the cancer had already started to spread which is not something you or the vet could have forseen.

At 2 years old, realistically, Pickle is heading towards the end of his life anyway and while he is still able to enjoy it, i'd let him live it out without surgery, tests or anything invasive which he may not survive anyway.
Surgery wouldn't be a cure and may not necessarily make him more comfortable either.

You are very much in tune with your hamsters and you will be able to tell when his life becomes a burden to him and then act accordingly.

Enjoy whatever time you have left with Pickle and spoil him even more, if that's possible.

[Pebbles82]

Yes that is the plan having made those decisions earlier today in discussion with the vet. I wondered about requesting a maintenance dose by phone or email but then I’m back to the communication issues again. Exotic vet doesn’t seem to see or read emails (she hadn’t seen the photos I’d sent of Pickle even though reception had emailed them on to her). I doubt she would do anything like that over the phone, but I can try.

What I like about her is she tells you the facts and let’s you decide. If I had wanted to try the op she would have done it. Because there is no exact answer to this. If she felt operating wasn’t an option she would have said so categorically. She looks at welfare and quality of life.

[Ria P]

Maybe you could use the old fashioned approach and post them a handwritten prescription request?

[Pebbles82]

That’s an idea. She was quite vague about the baytril saying - you could carry it on for another 10 days if you want and they gave me plenty, so technically I could just decide to do it anyway, but I wouldn’t really want to without a definitive maintenance dose. Maybe there isn’t one - maybe it’s just full dose ongoing.

But his eye looks so much better I’d hate for him to go through the whole eyeball thing again, which must be painful.

[Ria P]

I think one of Luna's hamsters was on a maintenance dose of baytril which she was able to increase as and when needed.

It would make sense for Pickle.

[Pebbles82]

Thanks. I'll check with Luna. Still trying to get my head round it all this evening, because I still think it could be an abscess. And removal of the eye is the only way to get rid of the abscess. Finding it hard to accept leaving an abscess untreated. I know that when the abscess isn't trapped any more the pressure and infection goes away quickly and things heal. But while a maintenance dose of antibiotics would keep it at bay there would still be ongoing symptoms.

But that's a logical feeling and there's a whole picture. Vet said it could be either an abscess or a tumour but whatever it is it's close to the brain for operating.

[Pebbles82]

So did some reading and research last night and have accepted that that kind of eye op isn’t an option, regardless of Pickle’s age. Read a vet paper on this kind of issue and it says an operation is rarely successful at removing any abscess completely in rodents and it usually recurs. So am satisfied that it’s the right decision not to try and fix it via surgery. It’s unlikely to be successful - which helps to know when deciding against surgery.

I am considering homeopathy though. It worked for my tooth abscess and doesn’t no harm. For anyone else I’d say - go to the dentist - but I have a condition that means I can’t have local anaesthetic (which is needed for dental abscesses). Which is a nightmare - and found homeopathy has (surprisingly) done the trick before- a last resort when no other option and a boon when it worked. Homeopathy is safe for pets too - although very hard to find a vet who uses it these days - mainly for larger animals too. But have had advice before from a homeopathic vet.

[Ria P]

When you think about it, it makes sense.
A dentist couldn't extract a tooth with an abcess because it could spread into the blood stream and lead to sepsis.
So the odds of successfully removing an abcess and an eye in a rodent are very much against it.

[Pebbles82]

I'm not sure - maybe human head anatomy is less risky than hamsters with their large eyes and smaller heads. I know dentists do extract teeth with abscesses! If it's an emergency that is all they will do. Normally they prefer to give antibiotics first before extracting the tooth - not because of infection in the blood stream but because infection stops the local anaesthetic working.

I think these days most dentists do root canal fillings rather than extractions. But they still won't do that without a local anaesthetic.

So I think the infection is within the bony cavity (eye/tooth) and gets trapped there and hard to clean out the socket successfully so bits left behind, hence recurrence. But I am sure there are cases of infection getting into the blood stream with tooth abscesses (not sure about eyes).

Trying to remember bits of my anatomy and physiology with nursing (which didn't include teeth but did included human eyes). But one thing about eyes is, I think if one is affected, the other can become affected if infection not treated as it can affect the adjoining nerves. A bit like your left foot going out in sympathy with your right.

Anyway decided not to think about it too much today. Made a decision, have a plan for the next 10 days and I'll see how it goes.

Pickle continues to use his wheel and looked absolutely fine last night. Came out for his piece of veg and eats up all his medicine. His eye looks so much better. I'd like to keep it that way.

I also have to weigh him weekly (rather than "now and then" as I did before).

[Ria P]

Ah right. I got this wrong all those years then.

Do you have to have sedation or hypnotherapy instead of a local aneasthetic every time you need a more invasive dental treatment?

You are right. Best not to think about Pickle's whatever it is behind his eye and stick to your plan. He is doing fine in himself which is the mainthing.