Tortoiseshells?

[Mollz]

After reading a thread about a possible tortoiseshell hamster, and seeing some wonderful pictures of them, I just wondered what colours, mixed with yellow, can become tortoseshell - or do they all do so?

I love the look of these animals, and as I am looking forward to breeding later on this year, I have become facinated with hamster genetics. How hard is it to breed tortoiseshells, and does a parent tortoiseshell with good markings mean that any offspring tortoiseshells will also have good markings?
Also, if you are starting off without a tortoishell parent, and just with a yellow and another colour, is it better for the mum or the dad to be the yellow, and what colour would be best to mate it too.

I haven't yet done a search on google, so will do so now, but any info will be greatly appreciated!

[Spuds Mum]

I'm no expert Mollz, but I find the yellow gene fascinating too. I do have a yellow boy and a melanistic yellow (yellow black - but not tortoiseshell) girl, so have done a little bit of reading about it, even though I decided not to then breed either!

I think that any colour can be mixed with a tortoiseshell, although I haven't read that specifically anywhere. The 'normal' colour will affect how the tortoiseshell patches will look.

The easiest way to get tortoiseshell girls is to mate a yellow male to a non yellow female - the male will give a yellow gene to each baby - but the female will give none - by doing this - the female pups will all be tortoiseshell and the males will be yellow (though carrying the female's colour this will not show unless the male also carries it, and has passed it on).

I think that the markings are random to be honest and so having a good tortoiseshell Mum doesn't guarantee good tortoiseshell pups. I only say this because previously a breeder discussed how hard it is to get a really good show tort. And I think it is probably patterning in a similar vein to banded or roan animals (i.e. random)

The best colour to mate your yellow male too, is I guess dependent on the colours you want to get out - which torts really look special to you. As you saw on the other thread there are huge differences in the affect that it has. For show purposes I would say you would need a standard colour otherwise you could get the most fantastic tortoiseshell in the world and it could never win a best in show as it could only be entered in the non-standard class.

If this was your plan (or hope at least!!) then colours like dove and mink would be out, even though one of the prettiest tort pictures on the other thread I think was a dove tort!

Black is a colour often used as the darkness of the black against the yellow patches is very striking. Colours such as cinnamon and golden show less obvious distinctions.

As I said, if you are thinking of starting showing and breeding for showing then torts are a hard way to begin! But if you don't mind the challenge, then I wouldn't be one to put you off. lol!
Remember, you also need to concentrate on all the other aspects too, like breeding good type, size, and the normal colour to correspond totally to the standards for it!

Hope that helps! I do love torts and torts and whites, and wish you much luck if you do have a go.

:P

[Mollz]

Thanks, Spud's mum.
No, I wasn't planning on trying at breeding them (at the moment anyway!), as I'm hoping to go along the cream/sable etc. lines with my mink boy and a BEC girl from Julie's litter.
However it is something I would be very interested in somewhen in the future, although it does sound a challenge.
I too have found nowhere that states what colours can be tortoiseshell, just lists of popular ones (e.g. black).

[Spuds Mum]

I think you are very sensible, and am sure that the girl you pick from Holly's litter will be delightful (my Bronte is one of Julie's babies and is gorgeous with a lovely personality).

Maybe one of us will take the plunge one day - and produce some lovely tortoiseshell pups.At the moment however, it sounds like we each have other challenges to concentrate on (I am trying to breed goldens and dark greys and really improve the type etc. of my lines.

Fingers crossed for us both!

[ami_j]

ive just bred my black male to my black tort female and got 6 black and 4 black tort (brilliant odds)
babies are coming up to three weeks and their patterning is fairly clear. looks gorgeous
the pattern is random as it depends on the skin whether it is made up of the black or the yellow cells as both are existing together. however that said three of my baby torts have yellow flashes on their nose just like mum.
they are a lovely colour to breed if a bit more tempermental.

[Holly]

I'd love to see piccies if you can get them

[Mollz]

Originally Posted by Holly

I'd love to see piccies if you can get them

Me too!

[Spuds Mum]

Me three Ami_j

[ami_j]

heres my tort spike at five weeks old when i got her


and her tort daughters (taken yesterday) they are 23 days old and dont like sitting still lol

[souffle]

Oh my they are adorable and so is mum. There is a name for the hamsters with a blaze on the nose and I cannot for the life of me remember where I read it