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Old 01-29-2021, 09:34 AM   #31
Engel
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Default Re: Rosie & Bloom

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Originally Posted by Amethyst_ice View Post
I love black rats, sadly they aren't often very popular...or black pets in general for some bizarre reason!
Black animals are associated with bad luck superstition ect.
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Old 01-29-2021, 01:06 PM   #32
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Default Re: Rosie & Bloom

Unfortunately they are, it makes me sad though since I've always loved black animals in general and have found black cats in particular to bring good luck rather than bad luck. There's really no reason to fear them but sadly people let superstition cloud their judgement at times!

For their diet, they're luckily not on a pelleted food. I know a lot of people say Oxbow foods are great in the US but from years of hamster knowledge something in my brain has always felt horribly wrong with the idea of any species with such a diverse diet eating such boring food as pellets. Their current food does have some pellets in but it's a mix. In the future a homemade diet might be more of an option, but right now with the pandemic and other issues going on I'd prefer to stick with a reliable premade option.

They actually do have two food bowls though, one of which came with the cage and the other I bought before I knew I was getting the cage since I was working on a DIY cage at the time while still thinking I was going to have to wait for this cage and that I was getting male rats. I might eventually take one bowl out though and reserve it for things like wet foods and fresh veggies, as well as trying to incorporate more foraging and scatter feeding.

Speaking of fresh veggies though they haven't been lucky enough to try any just yet, but I will definitely post on their reactions whenever I'm able to try any out(as well as fresh fruit etc - maybe even just food related reactions in general)!
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:46 PM   #33
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Default Re: Rosie & Bloom

As we are chatting diet, moreso as they are pet shop, they should be on a high protein diet until around 10-12 weeks old alongside their regular dry mix. It really does make a difference in their development

I get wilko kitten pouches (have 4 flavours and around £2.50 for 12 I think), boiled egg (can also be given in the shell for enrichment!), chicken, oily fish (the sardine tins for 50p good).

If all the diet additions is too scary, I recommend getting Dr,Squiggles to put in their water.

Veggies there is a good safe list list

Vegetables and Fruits

Mine get kale or spring greens almost daily. Kale is like rat catnip! Very good for them too. It can also be frozen to limit wastage. Kittens should have stinkier poop btw so that shouldn't be a aworry, and be aware carrot can make poop orange, I thought it was blood at first!

I make my own mix, I live alone and it is far cheaper, even with a few rats. I and many use Harrisons banana brunch as a base, ,you get 15kg. Then just get no sugar cereals from supermarket, I add wholemeal pasta, rice cakes, rye cakes and dried herbs and flowers as my usual. Also seeds like sunflower and pumkin.. again, atm im ,minus my main base, im managing to keep up my mix via my supermarket orders

Im experimenting with dog kibbles, usually a fish based one best. As already mentioned, shunamite diet is a good guide.. it sounds scary but I really noticed the differene in smell, coats and general condition when I switched from my original.. gulp..science selective.. to museli mixes. It isn't as scary as it sounds, I quite enjoy making up the mixes!

Depending on my group, I bowl or scatter feed. I also do a starve day..where I don't feed them, this helps with wastage but my current mix is obviously a hit as each morning just a few seed husks left

I hope that isnt all too daunting. Putting the work in when young really does pay off with rats
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: Rosie & Bloom

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Aww Bloom is a cutie, reminds me of one of my first girls, charity. I think I saw pellets in a bowl. Not the best as you now know. For the mean time, try scattering some of the food about and then with the food bowl altogether and use of as a water bowl instead

I love black rats and red eyed rats. The ones that creep people out and I suppose the ones people don't like. I have a black self. I'll add a photo to show what rusting looks like. She's currently stuck in moult but is slowly getting through it. Also giving extra copper can help
That's a great rust example, lovely
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:52 PM   #35
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Default Re: Rosie & Bloom

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Originally Posted by AmityvilleHams View Post
Unfortunately they are, it makes me sad though since I've always loved black animals in general and have found black cats in particular to bring good luck rather than bad luck. There's really no reason to fear them but sadly people let superstition cloud their judgement at times!

For their diet, they're luckily not on a pelleted food. I know a lot of people say Oxbow foods are great in the US but from years of hamster knowledge something in my brain has always felt horribly wrong with the idea of any species with such a diverse diet eating such boring food as pellets. Their current food does have some pellets in but it's a mix. In the future a homemade diet might be more of an option, but right now with the pandemic and other issues going on I'd prefer to stick with a reliable premade option.

They actually do have two food bowls though, one of which came with the cage and the other I bought before I knew I was getting the cage since I was working on a DIY cage at the time while still thinking I was going to have to wait for this cage and that I was getting male rats. I might eventually take one bowl out though and reserve it for things like wet foods and fresh veggies, as well as trying to incorporate more foraging and scatter feeding.

Speaking of fresh veggies though they haven't been lucky enough to try any just yet, but I will definitely post on their reactions whenever I'm able to try any out(as well as fresh fruit etc - maybe even just food related reactions in general)!
That's fair enough. What food are you currently feeding? I think oxbow (and mazuri) rat foods are too high in protein for rats anyway. Honestly I'd ditch the bowls, they don't need them. Mine have never had a bowl for dry mix or veggies, just cat food (I feed my own mix). I forgot to ask how old they are.
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:55 PM   #36
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Default Re: Rosie & Bloom

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Originally Posted by Amethyst_ice View Post
That's a great rust example, lovely
Yeh downside is she's only about 7 months old now so really shouldn't be rusting just yet (I know genetics can play a role). Hoping it's just the need to moult and low copper (rat rations order came today so they've got some conditioning cubes to see if that helps)
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Old 01-29-2021, 04:10 PM   #37
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Default Re: Rosie & Bloom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst_ice View Post
As we are chatting diet, moreso as they are pet shop, they should be on a high protein diet until around 10-12 weeks old alongside their regular dry mix. It really does make a difference in their development

I get wilko kitten pouches (have 4 flavours and around £2.50 for 12 I think), boiled egg (can also be given in the shell for enrichment!), chicken, oily fish (the sardine tins for 50p good).

If all the diet additions is too scary, I recommend getting Dr,Squiggles to put in their water.

Veggies there is a good safe list list

Vegetables and Fruits

Mine get kale or spring greens almost daily. Kale is like rat catnip! Very good for them too. It can also be frozen to limit wastage. Kittens should have stinkier poop btw so that shouldn't be a aworry, and be aware carrot can make poop orange, I thought it was blood at first!

I make my own mix, I live alone and it is far cheaper, even with a few rats. I and many use Harrisons banana brunch as a base, ,you get 15kg. Then just get no sugar cereals from supermarket, I add wholemeal pasta, rice cakes, rye cakes and dried herbs and flowers as my usual. Also seeds like sunflower and pumkin.. again, atm im ,minus my main base, im managing to keep up my mix via my supermarket orders

Im experimenting with dog kibbles, usually a fish based one best. As already mentioned, shunamite diet is a good guide.. it sounds scary but I really noticed the differene in smell, coats and general condition when I switched from my original.. gulp..science selective.. to museli mixes. It isn't as scary as it sounds, I quite enjoy making up the mixes!

Depending on my group, I bowl or scatter feed. I also do a starve day..where I don't feed them, this helps with wastage but my current mix is obviously a hit as each morning just a few seed husks left

I hope that isnt all too daunting. Putting the work in when young really does pay off with rats
There's a video on YouTube explaining shumanite both simplified: How to make a simple balanced rat mix - YouTube

And more complex: Making a mix part 2: more complex mix - YouTube

I too agree it pays off even though it's scary at first. I use Dr squiggles and calcivet in the water. Just for piece of mind really. Mine go mad for Sheba cat food but I'm trying to find an alternative as it's not that great. They prefer fish over chicken which doesn't help and they seem to dislike tuna. They like edmame though which are high protein.

Ah protein poops how I don't miss you. Haha I noticed a lack of smell when going from commercial to homemade too. I too used science selective...it was once considered a decent food until the recipe change

The difference is huge it's kind of like feeding a hamster some awful pet shop mix compared to feeding rodipet.

By the way amethyst I don't know if you have an Aldi near you but the other day I bought some soya and mung bean pasta to put in my mix. Thought it was something different and worth mentioning
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Old 01-29-2021, 04:35 PM   #38
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Default Re: Rosie & Bloom

They're on Higgins Sunburst rat food and seem to do pretty good on it. They could definitely stand to get extra protein in though which will hopefully get sorted fairly soon - even looking in decent condition I don't want to risk it any longer and I'm sure they'll enjoy being able to try new things anyways.

I can't pinpoint an exact age being pet store rats but I'm guessing they were probably around 6-8 weeks when I got them, so probably around that 10-12 week mark give or take.

Working with US cat & dog food options is a bit of a fun challenge for me. I know we have Applaws in some stores including Petco which I definitely want to pick up at least some options from, I'll probably check at least one local dog & cat food store too though later on for other options since they tend to have a decent variety of higher quality brands.

Other than the extra protein I'll definitely be trying to give extra fresh foods in general. I know that will be great for them nutritionally with all the extra natural vitamins and such in fresh veggies for example. At the moment I don't think there's much in the fridge in terms of fresh veggies except possibly carrots so if I can take some for the rats I will - after all I did tell them I'd try and get them some carrot at one point and I can't help but feel bad that I didn't with those sweet little faces just begging

I already fully intended to prepare healthier rat friendly versions of human food for them. That might get its own thread though if I do, at least for recipes and such. I'm sure my entire family will think I've gone insane if I start making elaborate snacks for the rats though!
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Old 01-29-2021, 05:00 PM   #39
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Default Re: Rosie & Bloom

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmityvilleHams View Post
They're on Higgins Sunburst rat food and seem to do pretty good on it. They could definitely stand to get extra protein in though which will hopefully get sorted fairly soon - even looking in decent condition I don't want to risk it any longer and I'm sure they'll enjoy being able to try new things anyways.

I can't pinpoint an exact age being pet store rats but I'm guessing they were probably around 6-8 weeks when I got them, so probably around that 10-12 week mark give or take.

Working with US cat & dog food options is a bit of a fun challenge for me. I know we have Applaws in some stores including Petco which I definitely want to pick up at least some options from, I'll probably check at least one local dog & cat food store too though later on for other options since they tend to have a decent variety of higher quality brands.

Other than the extra protein I'll definitely be trying to give extra fresh foods in general. I know that will be great for them nutritionally with all the extra natural vitamins and such in fresh veggies for example. At the moment I don't think there's much in the fridge in terms of fresh veggies except possibly carrots so if I can take some for the rats I will - after all I did tell them I'd try and get them some carrot at one point and I can't help but feel bad that I didn't with those sweet little faces just begging

I already fully intended to prepare healthier rat friendly versions of human food for them. That might get its own thread though if I do, at least for recipes and such. I'm sure my entire family will think I've gone insane if I start making elaborate snacks for the rats though!
Still very young then. Definitely give 1-2 wet meals a week. Like amethyst said, boiled egg, chicken or dog/cat food are good. Higgins is only 14% protein so would be ok for an adult rat, but not so much for babies.

When searching for foods be mindful of foods like wheat as it contains high amounts of phosphorus which is harsh on kidneys which is a weak point in rats. I'm not saying avoid wheat completely, but aim for it not to be one of the main ingredients. It's 4th on the list for Higgins. Higher up on the list it is, the more of it there is.

Also have a read of the ingredients, there's lots of sugary things papaya, molasses, banana, added sugar. Not the best thing in the world really. Another thing is alfalfa and Timothy hay. While rats will eat this, it does very little, just a filler like corn (3rd on the ingredients list). So again not ideal.

In short, the way I would describe that food is the equivalent to junk food. Yes they'll eat it because it's full of tasty things, but that doesn't mean it's good. Personally, I wouldn't feed that to mine. I'm not picking, just making you aware.

When feeding fresh veggies I aim for a portion the size of their heads (as a guide).

I'm doing my mix soon so if you like I'll add an ingredients list to give you an idea how different and easy it is for when you try and make one yourself
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Old 01-29-2021, 07:13 PM   #40
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Default Re: Rosie & Bloom

Apologies Amity I forgot you were US.

A good rabbit museli mix is what many people use here for a base if that helps

When adding a kibble to your mix (if you get to that stage) I go for senior or light and fish and rice based..as engel said, lower wheat and you don't want more than 12% protein really. The fish option is often seen as best as the animal meat ones often have poor quality meat derivitives in there.

I wouldn't worry too much about making "meals". As already said, and with lockdown, I havent got as many veggies but kale or spring greens I try get iin each week. I don't give loads of carrot as it does seem to make the poops orange and I cant remember the chemical it has. I tend to give more veggies than fruits due to sugar content and maybe a meat/higher protein treat once a week or two. I used to give chicken bones for calcium but have stopped now due to safety issues.

The main veggies I tend to offer are

Kale, spring greens, carrot, baby corn, peas, sweet corn, green beans, cabbage, peppers, cucumber (more summer treat for moisture)

Fruits less so- banana (if im having some with my breakfast), melon in summer, apple, strawberry.. i tried picking them fresh blackberries but they just made a mess and didnt actually eat lol

Engel- alas I love aldi but it isnt within walkign distance atm and im still shielding. I have hospital on Monday and go past an aldi i plan to be naughty and sneak in for a few of their own brand faves im really missing and craving, ill keep a look out. I used to like their mixed beans in a tin but havent seen it for a while
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