Wolf hybrids...are some people losing the plot?

[p_anda]

I don't think I'm the only person terrified by the prospect of the increasing popularity of these 'dogs'. Over tha past 2-3 years the number of ads and breeders seems to have doubled, I imagine according to public demand.

A wolf hybrid is a wolf crossed with a domestic breed of dog, such as a husky, malamute, german shepherd, etc. So technically speaking these are neither dogs or wolves. I know that taxonomically speaking dog and wolf are the same, wolf being Canis Lupus, and the dog has just the world familiaris stuck on the end of that. So they can interbreed. Great. Does that mean we should purposely breed these animals, which are now are so far removed from each other that they are a different subspecies? There is 15,000 years of domestication and careful breeding separating these two distinct animals. Dogs are different in terms of behaviour, temperament, health and often looks, not to mention intelligence [yes we actually dumbed down wolves to become dogs] Wolves are very different from dogs. They do not understand human behaviour. They have no desire to comply. Their instincts tells them that they can kill anything that they want if they're hungry. They are aggressive or/and fearful towards humans and oher animals. They can't be kept in a tiny garden or inside a house without destroying it, they will make regualr attempts to escape and undoubtedly will succeed at one point unless their enclosure is very secure.

And these hybrids are available to the general public without a license in the UK. Anyne can go out and buy one of these animals wihtout having to prove their capability of caring for one. Now I'm all for having the right to own any wild animal if you can care for it properly and if the species isn't endangered, but considering the amount of people who can't even housetrain their domestic dog, I have my doubts about them being able to care for a half-wild animal that is more than capable of killing their owner and pose a serious threat to the community. I would say that at least half of the people who will end up buying these will become unable to take care of them at one point and these animals will be have to go to a rescue or PTS. Those poor things never even asked to be born.

I really don't think these animals make good pets. Would a tiger make a good pet? Now, I think that a person who can keep a tiger in a large enclosure on their own private land and keep it under control should be able to own one. But even the owner of the tiger knows that the tiger is never going to be a real pet - it will be a tame wild animal that should be treated as such. But these people have licenses. Why shouldn't someone who gets a wolf hybrid have to get a license? Wolf attacks o people are well documented, though it's usually the person's fault - and by bringing the wolf into your average household I think is asking for disaster. Most people can't even control a dog, let alone a wolf.

I think the deliberate breeding of these hybrids is just an exploitation of people's romantic views about wolves...wolves in the wild.

This whole practive of breeding wolf-hybrids should be banned. You either get a dog or get a wolf and keep it the way it should be kept - but don't mix the two and hope it will work out. Why this is legal is beyond me.

[cathface]

I completely agree with everything you said. I really don't understand why anyone thought this would be a good idea. there is a reason we have wolves in zoos with several fences between them and us, and dogs in the home. if you want a wolf-looking dog, there are several breeds that you can get, which are wholly and fully domesticated dog and so won't pose such a threat as a wild animal, like Huskies, Malamutes, Utonagans, German Shepherds. even these breeds, because they are still quite similar to wolves in shape and intelligence*, need proper training by experienced people.

*I read somewhere on another thread on HC I think, that aggression is actually related to the shape of the dog, so more pointed snouts and 'wolf-like' dogs are generally more intelligent and prone to aggression.

BEFORE anyone shouts me down, yes I know that if a dog is trained, it will not be aggressive, regardless of breed, but you cannot argue that dogs like German Shepherds and Dobermans are not as naturally more aggressive/protective/possessive than something like a Labrador or King Charles Cavalier Spaniel. there is a reason they are used as guard dogs and police dogs, after all.

[StarlightSerenity]

yes we actually dumbed down wolves to become dogs

Don't agree with this at all. Yeah, a lot of dogs are a bit thick, but there are many, many dogs and breeds that are highly intelligent, if they weren't they wouldn't be able to do the things they do. Just because they probably couldn't bring down big game prey or survive in the wild doesn't mean that they aren't intelligent.

And these hybrids are available to the general public without a license in the UK

If I remember rightly, that only applies when the hybrid is F5+, so that the 'wild' side is very diluted (an F5 is a cross between two F4's). Any generation before that you need a license for. Don't go believing everything said in the adverts for these animals.

Sorry but it seems like you're making sweeping statements without having done any proper research other than looking at a few Pets4Homes adverts :/

Don't get me wrong - I don't think that these animals should be bred, I think it's completely wrong and pointless, more should be done to improve the pedigree dog lines, not creating hybrids and designer dogs (that being a totally different topic!).

[Ren]

This seems to be a good article about it: http://www.wolfpark.org/Images/Educa...uWantAWolf.pdf

I absolutely agree though, wolves are wild animals and should not be crossed with domesticated dogs. The only people equipped to deal with wolves or hybrids are those with huge reserves. A wolf-hybrid is just not a good idea.

[racinghamster]

I know nothing about genetics or breeding cross bred/hybrid species, but what I do believe is, wolves should be kept where they belong, in their countries of origin and wild. These people are doing these `dogs` no favours at all. They can`t show them as a breed and they will likely become the new `devil dogs` much like the label attached to Pitbull types. These dogs deserve better. The people who breed and sell them for mere gain should be locked up.

[Mikayla]

*snort* And they say that pit bulls are dangerous. Morons.

[racinghamster]

It`s not the dogs 99% of the time it`s their owners who don`t understand the breed. Look at Cesar Millan`s pit bull Daddy (now sadly passed away). He was the biggest softie going, but only because he had an owner who understood the phsycology behind owning that particular breed. Pit bulls are banned in the UK but there are still plenty of them and in the wrong hands. It`s the poor dogs that suffer in the end.

[p_anda]

Originally Posted by StarlightSerenity

Don't agree with this at all. Yeah, a lot of dogs are a bit thick, but there are many, many dogs and breeds that are highly intelligent, if they weren't they wouldn't be able to do the things they do. Just because they probably couldn't bring down big game prey or survive in the wild doesn't mean that they aren't intelligent.

If I remember rightly, that only applies when the hybrid is F5+, so that the 'wild' side is very diluted (an F5 is a cross between two F4's). Any generation before that you need a license for. Don't go believing everything said in the adverts for these animals.

Sorry but it seems like you're making sweeping statements without having done any proper research other than looking at a few Pets4Homes adverts :/

Don't get me wrong - I don't think that these animals should be bred, I think it's completely wrong and pointless, more should be done to improve the pedigree dog lines, not creating hybrids and designer dogs (that being a totally different topic!).

I've been following what's going on with these animals for about a year now...and I have seen a huge rise in the number of irresponsible breeders who are happy to sell these without any background checks. By that I mean, the breeder really couldn't care less if the person's got a license or not. Maybe I should have said that you can easily buy one without the dangerous wild animal license. You need a license up until F2. I really don't agree with that. Just because the hybrid is only 1/4 wolf doesn't make it more predictable than a 1/2 wolf. As long as the line isn't diluted down to the point where the offspring is only around 1/20 wolf or less, you shouldn't be able to class it as a domestic animal.

I think everyone who wants to own one of these should get a license, because most people will be wanting actual half wolves, and not a dog that had one wolf ancestor 5 generations ago. The whole point of this 'breed' is that they half or quarter wolves, and that's what attracts people. And I don't truly believe that everyone who's got one these has got a license. In fact, most probably don't, just as how some people still walk around wiht pit bulls yet they are illegal to keep.

I have an aquientance who's got two hybrids of her own and wants more...she doesn't have a license and neither can she provide them with the room they need. They are locked outside in a small pen because they destroyed the walls and the furniture in the house due to boredom...when they were allowed to roam, they regularly killed livestock and I would consider them too dangerous to interact with other dogs or people. What kind of life is that for those hybrids, being locked in a tiny pen...just so that this girl has two 'cool' 'pets'. The breeder who supplied her with the animals is well known. Obviously I'm not going to start naming anyone. This person has a lot of custom and makes a lot of money without caring about the animals they bring into this world. And their numbers seem to be growing. In 5-10 years time rescues will be bursting with these uncontrollable animals, just because some idiot thought it would be a good idea to breed a wolf to a dog, as a new household pet...I don't even see the logic behind this.

I don't think the Dangerous Dog Act is well enforced, let alone the Dangerous Wild Animals act. If I wanted to, I could go out and buy one these hybrids without any hiccups, and I have no doubt that if a person just spent a little longer looking on the internet wouldn't have trouble getting one just as easily as a regular dog. Yes there are breeders who are ethical [if you can even call them that given they breed them] and will make sure you can take care of a hybrid before they sell you one. But why would anyone bother, if they go to a different breeder who will give them a puppy no matter the circumstances? I guess you could say this about any animal breeder, but aquiring a wolf hybrid legally and morally may take several years, whereas getting a springer spaniel from an ethical breeder may just take a few weeks.

People aren't taking this matter seriously yet, wait until it goes on the News...'wolf dog ate my baby' 'wolf dog ate my cat' 'wolf dog ate my other dog' that kind of usual stuff, however ignorant, would be based on facts. And the people responsible this will be the ones without the license...

[mangoandmimi]

If these licences are being sold then i can't imagine them being sold to people who will provide a good home, only to people able to pay the money and fill out forms. :/ There's enough not-great-pet dogs out there (pitbulls staffies etc etc), why add to them?
Don't quite know what they expect to get out of a wolf dog hybrid, other than the fact that they probably find it interesting to see what happens..

[StarlightSerenity]

Can I ask (don't have to answer if you don't want to) - have you reported this person?

If you know of cases like these, see adverts etc etc then you (I mean 'you' in a general way, not specifically p_anda) should report them. I don't meant to the website, but to DEFRA or the RSPCA or someone who will take more action than just removing the adverts.

I totally agree with you - they shouldn't be bred, they shouldn't be sold and more needs to be done to protect the animals, prevent the illegal sale of them etc etc etc.