Is this setup im planning good?

[DarkSpectriality]

Ok so for my first two dwarf hbyrids i did not know anything about cage size and i just bought a decent about 360 sq inches floorspace cage and they lived happily (they did escape twice tho xD). But now, i want a new hamster and i've been planning on giving him/her alot of floorspace. After some research i learned that in Germany, which is the country with the best hamstercare, they reccomend 100x100 cm cages and 50x100 at least. I used to really like the Habitrail Ovo in general so now i want to make a mixture of that and an ikea detolf cage since its relatively cheap. I will first have a detolf cage in my room which i will probably buy tomorrow, I already have a Habitrail Ovo Loft and some tubes at my Grandparents house (they picked them up from a second hand seller which i found online, she gave me many many tubes for just 15 euros) I will also get a Habitrail Dwarf Hamster Habitat which has mini tubes suitable for dwarf hamsters and also a carrier if i need to go to a vet. So now the Detolf cage being around 7 square meters, the loft being around 2 square meters and the dwarf habitat being 1 square meter it adds up to 10 which is 100x100. Do you think that this is a good setup?

This is prettymuch my dream cage and i have enough money for it.[/I][/I]

I will place the loft and dwarf habitat ontop of the detolf btw.

[cookietiger]

That sounds good to me. If you were getting a pair I would say no to the habitrail ovo area due to possible territorial issues but since you are only getting one I don't see a problem.

I personally would find it irritating to have to clean all the tubes but that's just me.

Also when talking about hamster cage sizes people usually mean the measurement given (eg. 100x100cm) is of one continuous floor space, not broken up into different areas or anything but since your main cage area is so large it's not a problem it would only be a problem if it were below the minimum recommended.

Can't wait to see your new hammy when they arrive.

[Pebbles82]

The detolf sounds great. I'm not keen on the habitrails personally and I'd be tempted to either keep that as a separate play cage or for when you're doing clean outs - or put it inside the detolf. Connecting add-ons with tubes doesn't always work that well with hamsters and it's also an escape route where tubes attach and can be pushed out, gnawed around or just fall apart!

I would just put the Ovo loft in the detolf as a kind of extra hide and not bother buying the extra unit and tubes. It's the floorspace that is good for them and being able to have a habitat with different areas, textures and roaming space, and if you add enough substrate they prefer digging their own tunnels rather than using tubes - athough you could have a couple of shorter tubes attached the ovo loft as kind of entrances.

What you would probably find - whether the ovo loft is in the detolf or on top, is the hamster would probably nest in it and it would permanently need cleaning out which would stress the hamster. People have the same problem with the unit on top of the hamster heaven.

To be honest I would just use the detolf and set it up with plenty of substrate (maybe one end deeper as a digging end) - a house or nesting box of some kind that is open underneath so they dig down and bury hoards and also easy to lift up to check inside - and use a dish with sand in as a litter tray/sand bath to stop the nest and house gettin wet and smelly. I know they look very cute the Ovo lofts and some people have had them attached to cages, so it;s up to you really But the detolf is plenty big enough on its own.

Also if you're thinking of a pair I really wouldn't attach the ovo loft with tubes - it would lead to territorial behaviour, fighting and they'd need separating - much better to have one continuous space, no levels or tubes (except for large tunnels they can both fit in together easily).

[DarkSpectriality]

Habitrail tubees are relatively easy to clean, the tubes and locker rings are too hard for a dwarf hamster to chew its way out. Loft wouldn't fit in the detolf, it would take up way too much space. Why i want 2 seperate things is that while im for example cleaning the detolf, it can stay in the loft and dwarf habitat. I'm not getting a pair anyway. Reason why i want to give him alot of space (yes i want a male) is that my previous hamsters were really keen to escaping, they obviously didn't have enough space. So this time, I will spoil him with alot of space . Thinking about it, I might not buy a dwarf habitat i'll see later.

One other thing, my father bought a lemon scented wood chip bedding a few years ago and i can't convince him to buy a new paper based bedding, how could i convince him?

[Pebbles82]

Sorry I was confusing the Ovo Loft with the round Ovo Suite. I still personally think two separate areas with tubes between can lead to them having abnormal behaviours and only using one of the areas as a main home, but it would be a nice unit and useful for a play cage during a clean out or for transporting them somewhere else in the house or even to the vets as a carrier. But if you like the idea it could be worth a try. I assume the tube attachment would mean cutting a hole in the wood end of the detolf which I think could lead to chewing of the wood and possible escapes.

Aside from all that the detolf is a great size space for a dwarf hamster and the main reason for more space is "enrichment" which is what keeps hamsters happy. Enrichment is basically variety of levels, textures, places to go, things to do, lots of hidey places and floor toys and activities, plenty of substrate - all within one area, so they can have normal behaviours like digging, moving substrate around, burying hoards in different places. They like a place to sit for washing - often under or on top of a shelf.

The amount of space can mean they are so happy in the cage they don't want to escape, but other reasons they sometimes try to escape is if they're stressed, and too much cleaning out can lead to that kind of stress. The advantage of a larger cage with more substrate in is you don't need to clean out nearly so often. You can just take the odd handful out and replace it (spot cleaning) and change the sand in the sand bath or litter tray. I have a 100cm cage (not nearly as big as a detolf) and go about 3 months without doing a clean out. Clean outs are one of the biggest things that cause stress for them and they want to run away because everything smells different and all their familiar scent has been removed so it no longer smells like their own territory. Hamsters are very territorial. So general advice is - don't do big clean outs regularly - and don't clean everything at the same time - that way something always smells familiar. It's a human instinct to clean everything at the same time so it's all "clean". But it's better to do the wheel one week, any toys etc at different times, and any substrate changing at a different time again, and always replace some of the old substrate and mix it in.

You could spot clean for months with a detolf if you have at least 4 inches of substrate in (it takes a lot to fill it initially) and then when you do change it replace a third to a half of the old substrate and mix it in. So really you end up using less substrate overall in the long run.

Sorry if you know all that already!

Bedding - Ah tricky. Lemon scented bedding could cause serious issues (scented bedding really shouldn't be sold - it's for the benefit of humans who like lemon scent, and harmful to hamsters). Aside from that if it's a few years old I just wouldn't use it anyway - it could have all kinds of tiny things living in it by now! Or gone damp and have mould spores. That depends how it has been stored and whether it's unopened. Even so I would bin it and get new bedding.

How to convince your Dad - is he interested in the environment etc? If so you could make a strong argument for paper or cardboard bedding - it's recycled, saves on resources so good for the environment, less dusty when it comes to cleaning out (an argument for your Mum maybe?) and it would save on nesting material as it can be used for both. If he's just like a lot of Dads who don't want to waste what they've already paid for - you could say you really can't stand the smell of lemon scented bedding and would prefer to give the hamster a litter tray with sand in. For nesting material, torn up strips of plain white toilet paper is best.

Another argument might be to say you'd pay for the new bedding yourself. If none of those works then try good humour and a "jokey" deal. Ok if you give in on this, I will or won't do xyz for a month

[DarkSpectriality]

When i clean, I won't do the loft and the detolf at the same time, thats the reason why its good to have two seperate things. I bought the detolf a few hours ago, built it with my dad and set it in its place, I put the glass shelves ontop to put the loft ontop of them 2 were enough with a gap in the middle. If there are two areas one where i put food and one where there is a wheel toys and etc he will use them both so there will be no problems with abnormal behaviours. "Sorry if you know all that already!" and i do actually know all that already. I will just try to tell him that old substrate is bad (it was kept clean and safe from bugs, one package isn't open, one is half used but they were still good clean and closed so nothing could enter it was stored good), and that I will pay for the new bedding, hope it works.

[cookietiger]

I'm probably being a complete idiot here but surely since you put the shelves ontop the hamster won't be able to breathe or ventilation will be very limited possibly causing respiratory problems and also them to smell a lot more.