Dilemma...

[Golden_Syrian_Hammmies]

Some of you know Fudge already he's 1 year 2 months and recently he's been loosing some of his fur due to old age. He is a tame hamster but has become very antisocial no matter what I do. I think the cat has also a part to play in this as he did have a bad scare a few months ago. The cat is always in my room and I try to keep her out but he's in an Alaska cage atm and she plays with the bars sometimes. I haven't seen her do it recently. I'm also beginning to think that the cage is too open for him as he doesn't come out until after the hours of darkness no matter what I do and always seems anxious coming out. Not to mention it's a very noisy cage when I open the door and I always end up banging something too when I'm trying to be quiet! I know I want to minimize his stress level and when he eventually does pass on I'm going to be getting rid of the Alaska anyway and going to the Samla 130l bin cage so I'm wondering if is would be too much stress for him. His bedding I would just transfer over and not touch his nest. I know I would love to have more than one hamster in the future so having bin cages are great as they are stackable too plus easy cleaned. The Alaska is pretty hefty. I actually twisted my back lifting it a month or so back and had to be off work (obviously I didn't say how I did it lol) I've looked at the measurements and tbh there not much difference and it probably is a bit bigger in that the Alaska measures 46 1/2 wide whereas the Samla box is a good bit wider at 56cm. I hope I'm right in my measurements. The Alaska is 80cm long and the Samla 78 so there's not much in it. I'm really eager to make a bin cage and have researched loads but wondering if I should do this for fudge or would it be too much for him?

[cypher]

If he doesn't seem happy in the alaska & you really can't keep the cat out of the room he may well do better in a bin cage & the move doesn't have to be that stressful if you keep all the substrate & nest to move over & at least to begin with try to keep the layout of his things as similar as possible.
He's still quite young so should adapt ok & it is possible his fur loss could be due to stress if he doesn't like an open cage & is being harassed by the cat!

[freyashamsters]

I agree with Cypher, if there's really nothing you can do then a bin cage would be your best option.

The 130l SAMLA bin is quite a bit smaller than the Alaska I think. Would be fine if you're willing to downgrade him slightly but if you'd like a larger/same-sized space then what about a meshed Zoozone 2? They are very sturdy cages and require little DIY.

The Zoozone 2: http://m.petplanet.co.uk/p14673/zoo_...lJoaArsM8P8HAQ
Mesh (to cover the large spacing on the roof): We couldn
Cable ties (to attach the mesh to the roof): Wickes Cable Ties White Pack 10 | Wickes.co.uk

Another tank-style option would be a Maxi Duna - these (in my opinion) are a nicer, more neutral colour than the ZZ2s, don't need meshing and are nice and big however they are not cheap at about £80: Cage Maxi Duna Multy

The SAMLA bin may be a better option though if you don't want to spend quite as much money. Be warned if he is a chewer as I've heard the plastic is quite thin

[Golden_Syrian_Hammmies]

Yeah I was wondering if stress was a factor cypher. Freyashamsters I haven't actually seen a Samla in the flesh yet, I do plan though to go to ikea tomorrow and have a look. In terms of what a Syrian needs is a Samla ok? I think tbh a little less space might be better for him and not as open. He still will have a good wheel (the wodent wheel) should it fit ok into a Samla? I will take my measurements with me. Also, he's not a chewer normally, though he went through a spell of chewing the bars but has since stopped for quite a while. Are there areas in a Samla that could be potential chew areas? I know it has funny corners. Are there any other bins anyone would recommend as being good quality and good size? I know of the RUB boxes and they looked really good only they are quite expensive.

[cypher]

I don't know if samla bins vary at all according to size but I have a couple of the smaller ones I actually use for storage & I think they are a bit thin also there is a ridge at each end so the inside isn't completely smooth or flat, RUB bins are expensive but they are such good quality, a lot more substantial & no ridges or anything inside to chew on, I use them as taming/play bins for my Chinese & love them.

[Golden_Syrian_Hammmies]

It is hard to get a good sturdy well made box, that's why the RUBs are so good. I saw this one it is the 84l one 84cm high, 44 wide and 71 cm long? It's a good bit cheaper than the 145l one. The rodent wheel is 30cm high and I wouldn't have it as high on substrate so would this box be a good size?

reallyusefulstorageboxes.co.uk

Also saw this wham box..it's the 133l and is a great size

https://www.amazon.co.uk/EXTRA-LARGE...am+storage+bin

[AmityvilleHams]

I think the 133l would be better,just because it has more overall floor space.Bin cages are sadly very limited,but I've seen raised lids done for the short underbed style bins which would otherwise be unsuitable due to the inability to fit a proper wheel.

The internal dimensions for the 84 are supposedly 61 x 37 which is definitely not a good size

[Pebbles82]

Aargh! I just wrote a really long post and lost it

Anyway - shorter version:

You need to keep the cat out of the room as a priority. Just the smell of a cat nearby can stress out a hamster, never mind having one sitting on the cage or twanging at the bars!

So if you're thinking of a cage change, take a bit of time over deciding what would be the best set up for the hammy, rather than trying to think of a cat-proof cage. Even a bin cage will have mesh a cat can poke its claws through or pull at (and most likely be less secure as well).

If you're thinking of a cage change though, have a think about what kind of thing would work with your hamster. Bin cages and Zoozones open from the top so it's harder to have hanging toys, hammocks, sputniks etc, which can give overhead cover, making a hamster feel more secure.

I would suggest either getting a second hand hamster heaven - which is very slightly smaller and quite a bit lower and has a lovely big front opening door that doesn't clang. Or rejigging your current cage with a new set up that makes your hammy enjoy the space more or makes it cosier. It might be better to spend the money on doing that (extra set up for the Alaska) than buying another cage or bin and needing extra items for it as well.

I'm not sure what your current layout is, but this is how Charlie's cage used to look when he was in a Savic Mickey 2XL (exactly the Same cage as the Hamster Heaven but smaller bar spacing and no tubes or penthouse - which most people seem to remove anyway). Charlie used to be a very nervy ham and didn't like cage clanging either so I had a bottle stand in the cage for him instead of taking the bottle on and off the bars.

You can see it's quite low (36cm internal height - about the same as a large Zoozone). I had a large guinea pig house in there for him, which doubled up as a shelf/platform, and the bendy bridge over the door gave access to the roof and made the house nice and dark inside. He seemed much happier with a nice big house and had room for a big nest and space for his hoards. You could make something similar out of a shoebox with a hole cut in the front for a door. Cut the bottom out and use the lid as a lift off roof so the nest doesn't fall apart.



Then I added a tunnel to the roof - he liked that - it meant there were more things over his head so he felt safer underneath and usually sat underneath the rat sputnik. It also gave a kind of roof run so he could go from the house roof, through the tunnel and into the sputnik - without feeling exposed.



You could spend the money on a new wheel and some extra enrichment for the current cage so your hammy can explore and enjoy it more at night, without feeling too exposed. So rather than buy a bin cage you could get the 12" Silent Runner wheel and bar attachment maybe - I love that wheel - it spins so well and is silent and you can put it wherever you want in the cage as it fixes to the bars really well with the attachment and still have good depth of substrate underneath.

Also adding large lightweight floor toys on top of the substrate makes it cosier and feel safer, and even feel a bit smaller. Those large cork tunnels are great for that - a long tunnel and a nice texture to climb over. A bit like on this amazing set up in a Maxi Duna Multy.

Obi's natural set up is complete!

Having the substrate as deep as you can and having hanging things from the roof (eg rat sputnik or hammock) with access to them via a tube or from a shelf, can make it cosier. You could also add a few small shelves or ledges in various places - something else to sit under and make things feel cosier.

I like the little wood ledges from Ranchouse cages. I have two making steps at the moment, and lava ledges are quite good too (but not cheap).

Access is something to think about with a cage. Both the Alaska and Hamster Heaven have front opening doors that are a good size. Top access can be awkward sometimes as well and can make hamsters a bit nervous sometimes. I know you were saying the cage is heavy to lift. I can't lift the 100cm Barney at all on my own! So I take the bars off first and then I can lift the base - I've only ever needed to do it once or twice a year to be honest.

[Golden_Syrian_Hammmies]

Thanks amityvillehams for that advice. Your right about the RUB cage. Also the other one would be better for height.

Serendipity I've always had cats and have had hamsters before at the same time but I've never had this bother before. We even had a hamster cage in the kitchen and the cats I had two then were in and out all the time and didn't bother. Belle is so used to being in my room and then fudge came it's an extra reason to be there. It's really annoying. She's a nightmare. It means I have to keep my bedroom door closed all the time as she's nearly always in the house. She's so spoilt. I had thought of putting the Alaska on a table up off the floor as well. Fudge has a good bit of over head cover in his current setup even though it is a big cage. And he has a good wodent wheel so I don't need to buy a new wheel. If I had it cram packed I still don't think he'd come out. Maybe it's just the way he is. I haven't had him out in ages he hasn't been out since the vet visit. In the evenings I do his bowl or put out other bits of food and make a bit of noise in the cage but he doesn't bother coming out. A few times I did shake and he came but literally it's on his terms. I just have to accept he's not a sociable hamster. I know he's ok because I hear him at night on his wheel and sometimes in the morning I get a glimpse of him...the minute I go over and talk to him he's away. He knows me and he trusts me to handle him but I don't know what's wrong. Tbh I probably won't do a change as I think it would more than likely make him worse and more stressed. Il just do my best to keep the cat out and get a table to keep him off the floor. I was just thinking maybe since I put him in the Alaska be user it's so big he has no reason to come out. I also think maybe it's something I've done like not getting him into a routine because I work shifts but I'm in most evenings from 9 onwards but trying to get him into a routine has been hard. The cat also has not helped things. He just doesn't seem to want attention at all and I know some hamsters can be like that, fudge must be one of them!