What are the signs of hamster having too little space?

[Hentala]

One question was running through my mind lately - how to tell if hamster is experiencing discomfort due to small size of the tank? Does he express it through particular behaviors?

Lately, researching my native hamster forum, I've noticed a big amount of general aggresion of users toward newbies who had smaller cages. I won't comment about even mentioning buying hamsters in pet stores there, yet, that is beside of main topic.

Let's say the standard in polish is 60x40 - in general, for syrians, ww's, campbells, chinese, robos... all.

My Samla storage boxes were described 60x40 in Ikea, but putting my liner in use, found out that it was only the area of the top, not the bottom, that was measured. The bottom proved to be 50x30

That is a little below the standard, and judging by people's attitude on polish forums, it makes me almost afraid to post there asking for any advice. Only, I wonder, am I really hurting my hamsters by keeping them in 50x30 samlas? How to tell whenever my hamsters are uncomfortable or not?

None of them seem to be jumping on walls or digging in corners ore trying to aggressively attempt escape, they are usually too busy with food, toys or sleeping.

[Pebbles82]

Behaviours vary when a hamster doesn't have enough space. Generally it's bar chewing (which they can't do in a bin cage really, except possibly the mesh), cage aggression, trying to escape! Chewing out of a bin cage. But also lethargy and depression can occur if they feel something is not escapable or just don't feel right.

60 x 40 and 50 x 30 is a bit small. Plenty of deep substrate helps. The main issue with a small cage as well is there isn't really enough space to fit in a suitable sized wheel or enough enrichment. But deep substrate helps with enrichment.

It isn't so much about noticing abnormal behaviours (which can be subtle, like depression), but more about noticeing normal behaviours when they're in a larger cage. We moved ours from a 3 tier rotostak thing (the largest unit at the bottom was only 40 x 25!) into an 80cm x 50cm cage. He was quite nervous at first especially as he'd been a perspex unit and was now in a barred cage, but he had settled in well by day 10 and his personality really emerged! He climbed things, he looked happy! He was having fun, he found lots of favourite places to hide and sit under and would literally lie on the substrate looking all chilled and content!

I've now upgraded him to 100cm cage because he grew quite big and the big stuff in his 80 x 50 cage filled it up too much. The rule of thumb is - as much floor space as you can possibly give them with 80cm by 50cm being a minimum guideline in the Uk (in Germany the minimum is 100cm by 50cm). Within that they need 'cover' - ie things to hide under and feel secure under like a good sized house, a shelf. If things are too exposed above them they can feel insecure.

[Hentala]

Our actual minimum in Poland is 60x40, but compared to your standards seem really small indeed. I though of buing two Detolf's from ikea, but my mother would not like the idea, unfortunately. I don't really have large room, even if my pocket money alone would be enough to buy these.
Yet, I'm thinking of moving out from my mother's flat next year, as I will be going to university... but I'm not really sure about it, since then I wouldn't be able to make entire amounts of my own money a hamster fund.

I hope adding more substrate and toys will help my hamsters feel better until I won't have to ask my household for allowance to buy large furniture :c

[Pebbles82]

Do you have more than one hamster? If you had one detolf you could put a partition in the middle to make two cages/habitats But it sounds like space is the issue at the moment. More substrate and toys will help. But you could also just make a bigger bin cage The Ikea Samla bin is a fairly good size - bigger than you have now but not huge to find space for. It is still a little on the small side for a Syrian as 78cm wide is the maximum top measurement, but it's not a bad size, and if you had 20cm of substrate in the floor area would be not too bad as the 'floor' would be higher up.

SAMLA Box - IKEA

Quite a few people use these to make bin cages - if you've made a bin cage before you'll know what to do.

Zooplus also deliver to Poland and the Alaska cage is a good size and not too expensive

Small Pet Cages

It would easily fit on top of a chest of drawers. I think that would be better than a Samla bin cage as it's a better size and a hammy would be very happy in that. If it's a Syrian. If it's a dwarf hamster, the Samla bin would be better.

There are also some excellent sized cages and tanks on Amazon.de with shipping to Poland, but the tanks tend to be expensive. Some of the cages aren't too expensive though.

This would be a good cage for a dwarf hamster

Mäuse- & Hamsterkäfig ELMO "XXL": Amazon.de: Haustier

This one would be good for either a Dwarf or Syrian hamster - it has narrow bar spacing of 6mm

Nagerkäfig für Ratte Mäuse Hamster Kleintier Paradies blau XXL 1m 6mm Gitterabstand: Amazon.de: Haustier

This is also a good tank style for a dwarf hamster and not a bad size.

Cage Duna Multy: Amazon.de: Haustier

I also remember a Polish member linking a site in Poland where she got her 1m cage - I'll see if I can find the link

I can't find it but her cage was basically the same as the one above with the 6mm bar spacing.

[Hentala]

I have four hamsters :3 Actually my room looks like this: [pardon the mess]
photo1
photo 2

Eventually I could just go to ikea and drag detolf home before mother will return from work. After all, she probably wouldn't order me to take it back, my money, after all... I have Ikea... not close by, but close enough. Maybe both detolf's would fit on the bed? Or one on the desk... I could do that if I saved money for two months... cages are rather out of question, my mom would go on rampage if hamsters would shove bedding ut of the cage by digging :c and I'm a rare case of 20 years old who don't have a bank account. I'd have to ask my mother anyway to buy things online ._.

Two months of saving money would make that possible...

[Pebbles82]

The first photo link didn't work. On the second photo - the couch/bed on the right where you have the bin cages looks fine for putting a detolf on. As long as it isn't where you sleep lol! You'd have to keep moving it then. I think one detolf would be fine on there, but not two. Do you have four hamsters? And are they Syrians, Dwarfs or both? If I'm right thinking you have four, maybe you could get one detolf and two Samla bins. You would need to make a lid for the detolf out of some pieces of wood and mesh. It's quite easy and there are a few tutorials on how to do it (including one by Erin's Hamsters on Youtube).

I can't see what ventilation you have for the bin cages, from the photo, but they do need a lot of ventilation - usually most of the top, and a big panel on the front as mesh.

One reason I prefer cages is no diy and good ventilation Actually with 6mm or 7mm bar spacing the substrate doesn't fall out! My cage has 7mm bar spacing and I have the substrate piled up 10cm above the base at one end and it doesn't fall out But it's true it's easier to keep it off the floor during cleaning with a tank.

Two detolfs sounds better to me as ventilation is tricky to put in the bin cages. I can't see your desk on the photo though. The detolf is 163cm long so it would need to stand on something at least 140cm long so there isn't too much overhang. Or - I've seen someone do this - have one end of the detolf up against the wall to support that end.

[Hentala]

Well, my desk is just that size [160] in lenght and 73 cm in width so it would be no problem. Only I'm not much of a tinkerer... but I could always ask someone to help me with DIY. The bins have always open tops, just as if they were tanks.

The four are all dwarf hybrids.. and of course I don't sleep there lol It's actually just the skeleton of the bed, without mattress

Or... would it be possible to join two 50x30 samlas together to get 60x50 or 100x30 bin?

[Pebbles82]

Unfortunately joining two smaller cages doesn't do the same as having a continuous floor area - adding a cage on is ok if one of them is large enough on its own. You might be ok without a lid on a detolf but most people reckon it's needed as even dwarf hamsters can be pretty clever at scaling, especially with a good depth of substrate.

I think a detolf of your desk with a partition in the centre, sounds good - it would give you two cages. I also hate diy but I'd have a go at a detolf lid (much easier than ventilation on bin cages). Have a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYzDeSBE1hI

For a divider you'd just need a piece of wood slotted/wedged in.

Two detolfs would be good! one on the sofa and one on the desk - with or without lids.

[Hentala]

Well, what I meant by joining bins was rather like, cutting off the entire side of Samla no.1 and opposite side in Samla no. 2 and then somehow... merging or tying them together, with a safe glue, or under temperature, or with wires? Has anybody ever done it in DIY section in the past? Cause I have a lot of these bins :3

Then... I guess I'll be making a trip to ikea later this month :3

[CMB]

If the wardrobe moved left or right the gap to the side may be big enough for a detolf. Always a good idea the measure first before buying a cage etc.

A IKEA Billy's extension and glass shelf make a fair sized cage (another or Erin's hamster videos on you tube shows how to make it).