German minimum cage size

[Happy]

Coated wooden boards can't be chewed through because hamsters can only chew on a border and not on a smooth "wall". From the inside of the habitat, the edges are not accessible.

This is what I mean, just normal veneered chipboard (Nagerhütten are built from this too, if you know them):





So far I haven't heard of any hamster ever chewing through the Ebay Wooden Cage either.
I know lots of people who use it and the wood will be no problem if it's properly varnished from the inside, but building a cage from veneered (coated) wood makes more sense because that's definitely cheaper and you don't have to varnish it at all. If you look at DIY hamster homes, most of these are made from coated chipboard (the same type that, for example, most IKEA furniture is made of).

Originally Posted by Serendipity7000

Thanks for that! Yes that's the information I read. It does make my cage seem small at 80 x 50. What does Randalweib translate as please?!

Yeah, 80x50 is really small. Many years ago, this was the minimum for dwarf hamsters in Germany but today that information is outdated here as well.

If possible, maybe you could extend your cage to give your hamster more space. If it's a barred cage, though, then the actual floor-space is even less than 80x50 and unfortunately you couldn't extend that, so if that's the case you could look for an aquarium or maybe actually order the Ebay cage. It's really not bad. I used to have it about 4 years ago for my Hybrid.

Good luck, I hope you find a solution.

Ps: Randaleweib is what we call very active female Syrians, they're usually quite destructive if they're kept in too small cages.

[Rashy]

How is it to connect two cages togheter?

[RubyDG]

Wow - thanks Happy (again LOL). I appreciate you taking the time to put that information together . I have heard of hamsters chewing through wooden cages which was what put me off them but those were like the wooden ebay one you linked to rather than made from veneered chipboard. If you varnish the inside of the wooden cage would the hamster not be able to chew through it? Sorry for all the questions I'm just really curious. I do like the Mable 100 cage I have (100x54x64) but I sometimes look at it and feel like I could do better for my hamster. I had a look at the site you linked for the pre-made veneered chipboard cages which look great, the site is confusing for me though because of the language even when using google translate. My other concern would be that as far as I know (and I could be wrong) the veneer on the chipboard is poisonous if ingested and even though they can't get a grip to chew on it I'm not sure I would be comfortable taking a chance on that.

[Happy]

Hi again, Ruby.

I guess technically a Syrian can probably chew through a natural wood cage if (s)he tried hard enough, but I've known so many people with that Ebay cage and have had it myself and nothing ever happened, so I wouldn't worry. The chances of a hamster chewing through a plastic cage base are much higher and plastic is actually dangerous for the hamster, as opposed to wood with pet- or child-safe varnish.

The actual reason that people don't recommend natural wood for a cage is not because of chewing or even peeing (since most hamsters use their toilet), but because if there are ever any parasites and you haven't varnished the wood you can throw away the whole cage as you can never completely clean it.

I've heard that veneered chipboard can be dangerous in the USA, but in Europe there are so many safety standards that this kind of stuff has to adhere to because it's used for everything from kitchen worktops to wardrobes. You know, in case people inhale sawdust from it. Everything has to be pretty much idiot-proof.

I've seen the Mamble cage and it's good, probably one of the best barred cages you can get over there, especially if you put in a full level to double the floor-space.

Originally Posted by RubyDG

I had a look at the site you linked for the pre-made veneered chipboard cages which look great, the site is confusing for me though because of the language even when using google translate.

Sorry. I can imagine how confusing German sites must be. I sometimes look at Spanish sites and that's confusing enough even though I'm learning it in school. LOL.

This one is mine, in case you're interested:



I bought it for my dwarf hamster last year and he's quite content in it. I also have a bigger one with a young, active Syrian in it and there is no way she could ever chew anywhere on the wood. She tried when she first moved in, but quickly gave up because everything is really solid.

Originally Posted by Serendipity7000

Thanks - yes I'd love a bigger cage. That's the Tectake isn't it. They're great - a couple of people on here have them. When I looked at the Tectake on Amazon though someone had asked a question about what wood they were made from and the Tectake people replied 'cedar'. I thought cedar was bad for hamsters - or is that just the shavings?

There is some truth to things made from cedar or any type of coniferous wood being bad for hamsters, but that's only if there's bark on them. The issue is that some people use these Trixie things, which are always advised against on German boards because they're made from coniferous wood that can exude resin. That is indeed bad for hamsters, but this can usually only happen with these natural conifer wood items that still have bark on them. To be fair, I've seen these things used countless of times and not once have I witnessed any resin coming out of one of them. I personally don't use them, though - not only for that reason, but also because they're usually far too small and therefore useless.

But anyway, back to the Ebay/Tectake cage. From my experience, I can say that when I had this cage there was nothing on the wood that could exude resin. I've had a Hybrid and a Syrian in two of these cages a few years ago and they both lived a very long and healthy live, so if you want that cage, I'd say go for it.

As for the shavings, if you're in Europe then woodshavings from popular brands are generally safe, but in the US some kinds are polluted, hence why they often recommend using other types of bedding like Carefresh or hemp. It's a shame because hamsters can't burrow properly in that, but better safe than sorry.

In the UK, however, I know that woodshavings are perfectly fine because they're mostly the same brands as in Germany and I've been using them myself for the past 6 or so years.

[Thin Lizzy]

That's it I'm taking me and my Hamily to Germany!
That's been an eye opener!
Thank You Happy for your wonderful input xx

[Pebbles82]

Thanks - yes I'd love a bigger cage. That's the Tectake isn't it. They're great - a couple of people on here have them. When I looked at the Tectake on Amazon though someone had asked a question about what wood they were made from and the Tectake people replied 'cedar'. I thought cedar was bad for hamsters - or is that just the shavings?

[RubyDG]

Yay! Thanks for all that info Happy! That's actually cleared up a bunch of questions and concerns I've had . Your cage looks lovely - I can definitely see a hamster being really happy in it!

What I'm thinking about doing for the Mamble is getting/making a custom wooden top shelf that would cover most of the area of the cage except for a gap running across the front - so the same length of the cage but a bit smaller in width. However my big problem with the Mamble is that there is no cage door or access from the roof. Putting things in and cleaning the top shelves I have there now are problematic as I have an arm that doesn't work properly and even with my other one I struggle getting to the top left side of the cage. I'm going to start a thread today about if there are any ways to add in roof access to barred cages. The only other thing I can think of is buying another cage, which I'm not ruling out, but it would be a pity due to the money and effort I've put into the Mamble. Still, I'm not totally satisfied with it and I definitely think the German cages I've seen are by far much better. I love my little guy so much I just want to give him the best home I can manage. You've given me lots to think about so thanks for taking the time to post all that information!

[Pebbles82]

Yours is great! Is it open at the top or is there a door for that bit please? I think my syrian would jump out otherwise! Glad to know that shavings are seen as suitable in Germany - and that the tectake cage is fine - it actually looks like pine to me anyway and yes it sounds like it would need plastikoting.

A lot of people have the trixie houses. I guess so many things could be a hazard to hamsters that you have to draw the line somewhere as I think people have used these houses without issue as well, but I know others have found them dangerous because of nails if they are chewed. I also used to think chipboard was a bit noxious - formaldehyde in glue and all that, but as you say, it's sealed in by the formica/melamine and has probably improved in recent years. We're surrounded by it anyway. But you do make it sound simple - which it is! A big habitat, safe housing and plenty of substrate is about it really isn't it? I also like the idea of a Mamble with a full level in but not sure how easy that would be to do. At the moment I am hankering after an Alexander cage or a detolf.

Thanks very much for all your info on here - much appreciated by me and I'm sure by others.

[Happy]

A Detolf would be much more suitable than a barred cage, if you can make a high lid like this to get in enough substrate:

http://i.imgur.com/5TSu6AS.jpg
http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uplo...locwdt3prg.jpg
Naturnahe Hamstergehege: Detolf mit Aufsatz für Goldhamster

The Detolf has inner measurements of 156 x 38,5 x 35 cm (LxWxH), which is still a bit over 0,6 m² whereas the inside of an Alexander cage is only around 97 x 48 cm. That cage also costs a lot more than a Detolf, especially as you could even get a used Detolf for less than half the price.

However, it's very difficult to fit Syrian-sized supplies into such a small width as it's even less than a 40 cm wide aquarium, so I would only recommend it if you have absolutely no other way to get something with a similar length, but a width of at least 50-60 cm. It's not impossible, though. The length of the Detolf is actually good enough and it doesn't weigh half as much as an aquarium of a similar size and the height can be fixed by a high lid, so the only thing that's really unfortunate is the width of it.

[Pebbles82]

Wow look at that detolf! Now that looks like some serious diy. I hadn't thought about the height - I guess it would be a bit of a squeeze for a big wheel.