Shavings

[AJ Hamster]

Unfortuantly I don't know what type of shavings they are but i've just seen this at a local shop and thought some people may appreciate the cheapness. My friend uses it with her rodents and they're fine so i doubt it's bad.
I think delivery is around £4.99 but not sure. It stills works out cheaper than some other places though
SHAVINGS, General Purpose Bale 20kg

[Christmas_hamster]

Considering aspen is difficult to find in the UK, I would take a guess that they are made from softwood shavings of some sort. Pine, cedar, spruce (UK pine) all contain phenols that irritate and harm the respiratory system of small animals. Even humans that work with these products must be careful, some people that don't develop respiratory issues later in life because of it. Saving money on shavings now just so you can spend more in vet bills later?

[Demecat]

Not all hamsters develope respiritory problems Christmas_hamster. I wouldn't use them though because all purpose shavings tend to be harsher and may contain splinters or mites in them.

[StarlightSerenity]

Originally Posted by Christmas_hamster

Considering aspen is difficult to find in the UK, I would take a guess that they are made from softwood shavings of some sort. Pine, cedar, spruce (UK pine) all contain phenols that irritate and harm the respiratory system of small animals. Even humans that work with these products must be careful, some people that don't develop respiratory issues later in life because of it. Saving money on shavings now just so you can spend more in vet bills later?

There's no phenol problem with kiln dried softwood shavings and you can't get non kiln dried shavings in the UK.

I don't get this UK pine/spruce thing - spruce trees and pine trees are two different types of trees aren't they?

[racinghamster]

I only use shavings IF I have opened the sack/bag, taken out a bucketful that will be used within the coming month and using a seive, take the bucket outside and using a kitchen seive or collander, seive a handful at a time into an empty BIN or plastic storage container. This allows the finer dust to be taken out and leaves the larger, fluffier flakes. It also releases the aroma that lurks within as the shavings are normally vacume packed and hold their scent.

A little time consuming, but defimately worth it as it makes using any shavings safer. I actually use Aubiose (GJW Titmus website) and pay around £17.00 next day courier delivered and even then I still like to do the BIN airing. I`ve had one BIn airing for a month now and when I pick up a handful and hold it to my nose, there is no scent and no dust.

Shavings used straight from an opened sack smell strongly of phenols and will have fine particles of dust within. So I would say always prepare shavings this way and you should be able to use them without any associated allergies happening. Most shavings won`t have much information on the bags about being kiln dried or dust extracted. Don`t believe a word of it. Air them and better still, seive them before use.

[Christmas_hamster]

Originally Posted by StarlightSerenity

There's no phenol problem with kiln dried softwood shavings and you can't get non kiln dried shavings in the UK.

I don't get this UK pine/spruce thing - spruce trees and pine trees are two different types of trees aren't they?

There are still some residing phenols and kiln dried shavings. I've bought them before, you can still smell it. Kiln drying was originally done as an extra measure to rid the shavings of pests, it just so happened that it removed some of the phenols. Not all of them though. To me it isn't worth the risk. Not after seeing hamsters suffer from respiratory problems because of such bedding.

For a long time people kept telling me that "UK Pine" as they called it was safe because it wasn't the same as regular pine. So I asked a friend from the UK about it and she did some research and found that what people called "Uk Pine" was actually usually spruce. It was a tad better than pine because it didn't contain as much phenols, though they are still present.

Originally Posted by Demecat

Not all hamsters develope respiritory problems Christmas_hamster. I wouldn't use them though because all purpose shavings tend to be harsher and may contain splinters or mites in them.

Who would take the risk? I think the more likely thing is that people don't know that their hamster had been developing respiratory problems before they passed away. The better way to put it, is that not all hamsters on soft wood shavings die from them. It doesn't mean that it wasn't there and wasn't causing discomfort/pain and unless you get an autopsy done you won't know for certain.

[racinghamster]

Spruce is different from pine and is a better alternative, but they STILL should be aired, seived and left in an open plastic storage bin for at least one month prior to usage, making sure you shake the shavings around within this airing off time and lift handfulls up in the air and let the shavings drop back down into the bin. Smell the shavings in your hand as the weeks go by. You will notice a big reduction in the smell. It`s virtually non-existant when this method is used and the shavings can be safely used.

One company who use spruce based shavings are Chipsi-Classic, a German company (google them) but many of the shavings sold these days in shops are not entirely open about where the shavings come from or what type of wood they are, which is why the method I use makes any shavings safe, even if they do originate from pine.

If you have a couple of spare storage bins without lids, just do as above, wait a month (prepare what you will need well in advance of use) and that`s it. It solves the issues of espiratory problems because you have taken steps and time to make sure the shavings are safer and usable for your hamsters.

Breathing in phenols/aromas from shavings may not appear to cause any noticable sysmptoms, but can do over a period of time affect the airways and lungs of small animals, purely because they are very close to the shavings on a daily basis. I can use shavings knowing that I have taken the time to prepare them to make them much safer. but I chose to use Aubiose as my main substrate, I still buy the odd bag of shavings to mix with the Aubiose or to use if my Aubiose is on the low side.

[vanilla-yazoo]

i have used shavings streight from the bag (normally a big one, and the top is left open or tide loosely it dose let air in, more importantly, shavings not everywhere)
i find it would smell very quick when used, you know when its been 4 days since cleaning, you can allready smell the corners badly-
tho i never had a reaction to it, i do agreee if you can get something with little or no risk, go with something better.

I now use carefresh- i know its expensive - i know it can be dusty

- brown is much more dusty (and a dusty smell for a day or so)then white or coloured, its harder too but cheeper and comes in big bags (i have done the sieve the dust out, there was some, but not as much as the shavings i prepared for my show)
-coloured has a teeny amount of fine dust(no smell)but not alot, as its made of egg cartons its sometimes flakes of fluffed up card, rather then actural dust, i dont tend to do the sieving with the coloured, as its a minute amount-
with both care fresh types, cleanings a doddle! you can pick it in huge handfulls out the cage, its very absorbent so wee corners are not smelly, if you spot clean the corners weekly, i tend to do a proper change about every 3rd week, as the bedding is so clean.

i have used 'hemp' (like abiose) it wasnt very dusty, or smelly, the corners didnt smell as much as shavings, its quite expensive as it dosnt 'fluff up' like some beddings, again, when doing corners, it can last 2-3 weeks before needing a big change(german hamster keepers never do a whole clean, only spot clean unless the hamster is sick or passes) i did like it, but it wasnt easy to clean, and it got everywhere, i found megazorb and hemp stick to your clothing, stick to everything! (esp lh male hams and megazorb XD)but thats the only downside in my eyes

[racinghamster]

I must be half German then because I prefer the half cleans or spot-cleans aswell! I find shavings and Aubiose will stick to my clothing regardless of the substrate! If it ends up touching my sleeve or jumper, I usually end up with a small amount on me or it can fall on the floor, but it`s no more messy really than anything else.

[StarlightSerenity]

Originally Posted by Christmas_hamster

There are still some residing phenols and kiln dried shavings. I've bought them before, you can still smell it. Kiln drying was originally done as an extra measure to rid the shavings of pests, it just so happened that it removed some of the phenols. Not all of them though. To me it isn't worth the risk. Not after seeing hamsters suffer from respiratory problems because of such bedding.

For a long time people kept telling me that "UK Pine" as they called it was safe because it wasn't the same as regular pine. So I asked a friend from the UK about it and she did some research and found that what people called "Uk Pine" was actually usually spruce. It was a tad better than pine because it didn't contain as much phenols, though they are still present.

The pine/spruce thing is confusing LOL!

To be quite honest no one has ever managed to provide scientific evidence of the danger of the amount of phenols left in woodshavings after being kiln dried - it just seems like a rumour has gone insane. This is what the breeder who I got Luna from thinks - Pine wood shavings and I have to agree.

I wouldn't attempt to convince me either way either - unless of course you actually have scientific evidence

If I went by the "why risk it" thing Luna would currently be wrapped in bubblewrap

I've never had problems with shavings, to me it doesn't smell (of pine I mean) and even if I don't spot clean (sometimes I don't), after a week and a half it's only just starting to smell (of pee, where she misses her toilet), I've had no dust problems either.

All substrates have their problems - usually dust problems, which the shavings I buy don't have.