Please HELP new pair of dwarves acting weird

[Aisling and hamster]

hi, so i recently got to new dwarf hamster girls, a few days ago they suddenly stayed up all day and the next day, then they started fighting but not the normal way, paprika was trying to get under saffron, it was really weird, they are four monthes old (the age that they become sexually mature). I'm starting to wonder if they are the same gender, they have started chewing my wooden cage like crazy so i think they're stressed. i don't know what to do please help!!

[Pebbles82]

If they are fighting they could need separating in case the fighting gets worse and leads to injuries. It does sound like it's possible they could be different sexes - which would be another reason to separate them.

As you've only had them a few days, it can take a while for them to settle into a new cage. Ideally for a pair it needs setting up initially with two of everything, so they don't fight over one item. eg two houses, wheels, water bottles and food bowls. They might still share some things but have the option to use a different one. The cage should also not have levels for a pair as levels encourage territorial behaviour with one taking the territory and fighting the other one off it.

Usually it's advised not to disturb them or touch anything for the first 2 or 3 days while they're settling in, so if you've moved anything in the cage or cleaned anything it could cause them to be stressed.

They can get on well for some time and then a change (ie move location or new cage) can unsettle them again. There are people with more experience about dwarf pairs than me on here, so I'll wait and see what they say - as to whether they need separating now or keeping an eye on.

[Aisling and hamster]

There is a level i will take it out. I really don't want to seperate them and i can't affprd another cage i dont know what to do

[AmityvilleHams]

Separating them would be for their safety and is far more important than the little bit of money for a spare cage.Take this is a lesson to learn from and don't get pairs without having a spare cage,or the end result can be horrible.

You don't need any expensive cage right now,just get a cheap decent size cage or make a temporary bin cage.The main thing is to separate them and not take a chance with their lives,because it is completely realistic that at some point if not separated it could result in death of one or both of the hamsters

[Pebbles82]

Just posted on your other thread I think it would be a bit difficult to take the shelves out of the Songmix cage wouldn't it? I seem to remember it is part of the back of the cage.

It is one of the problems of keeping a pair, especially for a first time dwarf hammy owner - that you always have to be prepared to separate them if they fall out and need another cage. You could make a bin cage quite cheaply. Ikea sell a good sized Samla bin for about £10 - you cut holes out and mesh them for ventilation. Otherwise the next cheapest cage I know (which is ideal for a dwarf hammy) is the duna multy which costs about £33. Temporarily you could manage with a large plastic storage bin with the lid left off.

Just wondering though, as your cage is so big, if it's possible to divide it into two somehow (ie block it in the centre with a piece of wood or melamine).

There are a number of reasons they could be freaking out. They may feel a bit insecure with the space if there aren't many hiding places. You could try putting a couple of shoebox houses at the back and adding more substrate. Cut a hole out of a shoebox and turn it upside down on the substrate. It will make a dark place to hide and they'll have one each.

[Aisling and hamster]

Originally Posted by AmityvilleHams

Separating them would be for their safety and is far more important than the little bit of money for a spare cage.Take this is a lesson to learn from and don't get pairs without having a spare cage,or the end result can be horrible.

You don't need any expensive cage right now,just get a cheap decent size cage or make a temporary bin cage.The main thing is to separate them and not take a chance with their lives,because it is completely realistic that at some point if not separated it could result in death of one or both of the hamsters

They aren't really hurting each other though, i watched a video by chocolatecolors26 and she said its ok if they are just squaking and chasing, paprika is just trying to get under saffron and then saffron squaks at her. i took the level out, can i just see how they are getting on now the level is out and seperate them if they get worse. P.S i do have a spare bin cage but its very small

[Drago]

Hello, I'll be honest in saying that I'm not an expert when it comes to dwarf hamsters, but if they get too rough, immediately separate them. It can take only a few seconds of rough fighting for it to end tragically (as I've unfortunately seen first hand) from what I hear, dominance squabbles are okay, but if it's anything more, separate. I've also been told shelving and other levels are not very good for pair cages, if you can't remove the shelves, perhaps you could try blocking them off?

[Pebbles82]

Glad you have a spare bin cage! Small is ok for an emergency Just wondering if it might be easier if your two threads were merged.

How are they now? Squabbling can quickly lead to fighting, bites and other nasty injuries. If they have settled, keep a very close eye on them. As mentioned earlier (can't remember if this thread or the other one), there might be something in the set up that is stressing them as well, so putting out two shoebox houses so they can hide might be good. I think with that cage I would go with making sure there is no access to the level, rather than removing it, as it could be very exposed from above then, which might scare them too (nothing to hide under) - but the houses should also help. Also have two food bowls and two water bottles (or scatter feed instead if you don't have two food bowls). And two wheels. I think if the shelf isn't accessible, it is partly a roof then. And it could be quite easy to divide the cage in half with a melamine shelf out of a kitchen cupboard or something! Or just a piece of wood or hardboard for now.

It's this cage we're talking about isn't it?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Houses-Ha...ds=Songmics+XL

What you could do is remove the ladders so they can't use the shelf. Will the shelf move up any higher? Probably not as I guess there are wood supports at the side for it to rest on.

Anyway if you've already taken it out then maybe look at something to make it feel less exposed from the top, with it being quite tall. You could hang a hammock underneath the mesh top maybe - they won't be able to get up there to chew it.

Another thing you could do at some point - some people have reversed the bottom door and the top panel. This means you can fill the base with about 30cm of substrate so they can dig tunnels and have that extra enrichment. (You'd be able to see the tunnels through the perspex). Dwarfies like digging tunnels I believe! The door higher up then means you have good access to them at the front for taming. But best not to do any major changes for 2 or 3 weeks assuming they aren't separated by then.

How's it going?

[Aisling and hamster]

I managed to take the levels out, when they fight its mostly just squaking but a lot of it. Its actually the XXL songmics cage not the XL songmics cage but there isn't much of a different. I'm really wondering if they are two girls or two boys or a girl and a boy, is there any easy way to tell

[racinghamster]

At least you know that they may need separating right away if they are showing signs of early squabbling. Dwarf hamster pairs are never straight forward and there are some that will live together, but the vast majority won`t and you may begin to see an escalation of these squabbles and constant chasing and squeaking can lead to intimidation and stress for the one being bullied. If they bite each other, or the bully bites the more subordinate animal, these bits can be nasty so you need to watch them very carefully now.

Removing the cage shelf is good. A single level habitat is required for a pair to prevent them from setting up territories on other levels. The cage should have two of everything, wheels, water bottles, scatter feed etc....

I would also advise not doing full cage cleans or using any cleaning agents as these can cause upset/stress. So if you follow the spot cleaning rules and keep them as calm as possible, this will help. They won`t really like their scents and cage being cleaned all the time or re-arranged, Small changes are okay, but it`s better to keep things simple.

The advice about finding a cheap storage box or a second hand Ferplast Duna or Savic Rody or anything of a size as a spare emergency cage is vital as separating them could need to be done right away, so it`s always a good idea to have a cage set up with substrate, a bed, and a bottle/food dish ready, just in case.

Dwarf hamster behaviour isn`t always well read and little chases or `tiffs` between cage mates can be just that. But if your finding this happens more often than not, or one hamster isn't allowed into the nest or is being bullied, I would say separate them before any harm is done, especially if you know you can`t watch them during the day or night.