"Selling hamsters on the Internet"???

Holly · 06-19-2008, 07:14 AM

I've been aware for awhile that the new Animal Welfare Bill objects strongly to the sale of animals on the Internet - which sounds ok on first hearing - after all who wants to think of animals being ordered willy-nilly (like bedding or toys) and sent here there and everywhere.

However, I've realised, since talking to Ken Skill yesterday, that the issue is not as cut and dried as I'd first thought. All of us who breed hamsters and have a website *could* be considered as selling hamsters via the internet. I have had several people contact me via my website and ask to buy my hamsters - as it happens I haven't yet sold any via this route but could quite easily have done. Even though I would insist on meeting the person in question, seeing what cage and equipment they have and finding out what they know about hamster care - would this be construed as selling a hamster via the internet?

What about those of us who post pictures of our babies on this forum and then get enquiries about them from interested HC members? Is this "selling them via the internet"?

Ken says, for now, it's enough that we don't use the word "sale" in our email addresses or on our sites - but how scary is this development?

Bunsey · 06-19-2008, 07:32 AM

very scary. I think if certain groups get their way there will be no hamster shows, no hamster breeders, no pet shops, no pets!

It seems like they just want to go about it one little step at a time... gradually inching further toward their goal.

Edited to remove potentially offensive comment - please be aware of the possible effects of comments posted - Spuds Mum

internet_nobody · 06-19-2008, 07:38 AM

Hmm that is a bit worrying. I've sold quite a few hens to people i've met over the internet, I never thought twice about it if they knew what they were doing. They weren't being posted, were only going for short car journeys etc.

I don't see how the internet is really any different to an advert in the paper or in a vet's surgery or a pet shop having its name in the yellow pages!

Basia · 06-19-2008, 07:50 AM

It is scary. I have put my babies on Preloved and free-classified. In fact our local paper also put the adverts online too and lots of animals are advertised this way.
I guess, strictly speaking, although people might have seen the babies on the website or forum, they do come to the house to actually purchase the baby so the animal is 'sold' from home.

Bunsey · 06-19-2008, 07:53 AM

i've only just realised... i've sold hams online! I advertised my baby robos on "the pet website" and i met people on service stations to hand over. That is totally selling online!

Noodles · 06-19-2008, 08:02 AM

I just had a look at the Animal Welfare Act and I couldn't see this on it - is it an amendment?

I would think that you will all be OK anyway - you are only advertising on the internet and as the sale is completed at your house, I doubt it's "internet selling"(I'm sure they will define it if it does come in)

In EU Trade law, they make a distinction between a passive and interactive website. I think yours would fall under passive which is "making people aware of the goods" rather than encouraging them to buy. Obviously it's a different area but I assume they will use a similar idea.

Like all these things though, it probably is for a good purpose - don't we have a massive problem with the import of wild birds from Europe? That, and things like Ebay animal selling, are what it is meant to stop I presume.

Holly · 06-19-2008, 08:32 AM

Well if people like Ken and Rosie are worried - they are the ones dealing with the RSPCA and Animal Welfare Act people - then I am too. The Animal Welfare Bill isn't finished yet - all the legislation is being decided now and it's behind as the stuff in the rabbit bill "collapsed" and is being re-done - probably why you can't find the internet bit. It's all to do with pet fairs and hobbyist breeders - and a number of hamster people are very worried. Ken says he's writing something for the next journal now to explain some things a bit better.

The reason we now have to tell the sales manager if we are bringing any pre-booked babies to shows is that there now has to be a "welfare officer" present and no transactions can be carried out without that person being aware of them. Ken says we very nearly weren't allowed to have sales at all at Todmorden.

Noodles · 06-19-2008, 08:54 AM

I will have to try to remember to sign up to the hamster club to get the journal - it sounds like it will be an interesting article.

Just as an aside - Does the club have to have a license now to sell the babies at shows/will they have to?

Spacemonkey · 06-19-2008, 10:06 AM

Oh for gawds sake, whatever next. Isn't it better surely to buy from a breeder who actually cares about the animals rather than a pet shop who wouldn't have to advertise because there would be nowhere else to get Hamsters from if this lot get their way! It will encourage more litters to be abandoned because you can't advertise them for sale. Pure madness

littlemissdwarfhamster · 06-19-2008, 10:13 AM

I have 'sold' quite a few hamsters over the internet. I dont advertise but i am listed as a breeder on the Northern site and often get enquiries. People who find me through this route tend to be a bit more interested, plus they often have to wait for babies as i dont breed a great deal. 99% of 'customers' are happy to wait to suitable for hamsters and during this waiting time I do contact them alot with pictures and they ask lots of questions (as do I) so I know exactly where my hamsters are going. They almost alwasy keep in touch too

This to me is MUCH better than advertising in the paper!!!