The Austrain Hamster License Debate

[Amazing Miss Alice]

Hi Everyone!

I subscribe to a German rodent magazine (Rodentia Nager & Co) and in the latest issue there was a very interesting article about the Austrian minister for Animal Welfare who wants to introduce a license for the keeping of exotic small animals such as Guinea Pigs, Degus, Gerbils and Syrians. The politician has suggested that not only would owners have to pay for the license, they would also have to attend a two hour training programme on how to look after their animals properly.

Initially I was all for it. I really couldn't see a downside. And then, as I sat at work, the article started to turn over and over in my mind.

The thing is, I worry that introducing such a license might move certain unpleasant people to move underground with their breeding. I can foresee a black market trade in animals. Registered breeders and animal dealers might adhere to the new rules but there will always be a small minority, an underclass if you don't mind me saying, of people who do not think of the animals' welfare. The responsible breeders and dealers who wouldn't think twice about signing up to this programme, are the ones who already have nothing to hide.

And this also applies to owners. The owners who would quite willingly pay for the license and attend the classes are the ones who probably don't need to do so because they already care enough about the animals' welfare in the first place. To me it seems as pointless and insulting as that unskippable message at the start of DVDs that says "piracy is a crime". I mean, I am always like "I know, that's why I just spent 20 quid on this DVD". I worry that this license preaches to the converted - and those people who this license is actually aimed at might just acquire some poor, retched animal and keep it in a shoe box, because that is what they would have done any way.

I eventually came to the conclusion that this license is, at best, a stick to beat people with if it cannot be proven that they wilfully abused or neglected their animal. Those who plead ignorance.

Anyway - sorry for the long post. I just want to hear what you all, as careful, loving, and responsible handlers have to say on the matter. I would love to read some of your opinions. I honestly haven't been able to get the article out of my head all day!

[kyrilliondaemon]

I kinda feel the same way as you do. In theory it'd be nice, but in practice it wouldn't work. If people can smuggle things around (and they do) people will find a way to skip this law.
Plus, who would give the course? Chances are it'd be someone of the equivalent of the UK RSPCA whereas a good hamster breeder would be the better choice.
It will also discourage the keeping of them and cause issues with if someone gets one illegally and wants to hand it over to a rescue - they can't because then the rescue know they had it illegally and the animal will end up released into the wild or something equally horrible instead - like the poor ham who was left on a London street a while ago.
Oh and my last query would be how they'd do this, because granting a license to everyone who currently owns a hamster wouldn't work, but nor would forcing everyone to attend the training - plus making most HC members attend training would be a. a waste of time, and b. probably embarrassing when the person giving the course knew less than the people taking it.

Might just be my view, but unfortunately I can see a lot of potential problems and think it would do more harm than good.

[Amazing Miss Alice]

I hadn't thought of that Sam. That is an excellent point about the license discouraging people from handing over animals that have been illegally acquired. Only last month I read a really shocking story in the Hamburger Abendblatt newspaper about a 20 strong herd of Guinea Pigs (all in-bred) that had been left in a car park here in Hamburg - when there are very good animal shelters available who would have taken them and not asked many questions.

The article is a little vague about who would run the courses but I think you are probably right about the Austrian equivalent of the RSPCA. The author of the article questions whether or not a two-hour class would achieve it's goal and instead suggests:

"Sinnvoller ist hier sicherlich eine gemeinsamer Initiative von Tierschützern einerseits sowie Zoofachhandel und Tierhaltern bzw. -züchtern anderseits." Sistermann, R., Meerschweinchen-Führerschein, Rodentia, Nr. 66, März/April 2012

"Surely it makes more sense for a combined initiative between animal welfare groups on the one hand and on the other pet shops and animal dealers/breeders." Translation: Alice Savage.

The author then goes on to make the same point that you do Sam, that an experienced breeder will be better able to inform the novice handler of their obligations and the sort of things they need to be looking out for.

I don't know why this article has got me going like this. But I really can't get it out of my head!

[kyrilliondaemon]

Yikes! Poor guinea pigs

I'm not sure what else to say, but I do hope this license idea falls through. It'd be great if something could be done to solve some of the issues, but this wouldn't do it and the only option I can think of is one that would never be implemented unfortunately

[Amazing Miss Alice]

I think the reason the idea has got me so agitated is that I can see that the politician has thought of this policy out of a genuine desire to do something about the widespread problem of uneducated people keeping exotic creatures. I am not normally one for rubbishing other people's ideas unless I can make another suggestion but here I am at a loss. Maybe if they offered the courses for free then more people might attend, but that drains away resources from animal welfare groups that could be spending that money elsewhere.

Making it compulsory is silly. Like you said, it would be laughable if most of the members of HC were made to go on a two-hour "basics" course. Oh well. I will be watching what happens closely!

[kyrilliondaemon]

Yeah, and good point... I hadn't thought of the costs involved in the course. And I'd love to do a two hour basics course Especially if it was run by the RSPCA or a pet store - I'd have great fun quizzing them about stuff they do wrong and accidentally teaching others instead of learning lol

Ah well, its good they cared enough to try and help. I just hope something works out ok with this, and it'd be great if you could let me know about any developments if that'd be ok?

(Oh and I think the only solution would be a very harsh movement to make too small cages/wheels and anything else that could be considered genuinely bad for the hamster illegal - make "starter cages" completely illegal e.t.c and ensure everyone has a decent cage, decent wheel e.t.c before they get the animal - with legal results for anyone keeping a hamster in smaller, not ensuring vet care if the animal is blatantly ill e.t.c. It'd be a nightmare to implement and upkeep though so will never really be practical.)

[Lynternette]

I'm glad you brought this up Alice as I was thinking at the beginning of the week should there be a license for all pet owners. In theory its a good idea but I don't think in practise it would work, you'd just get secret breeders who would inbreed animals. What's the first thing someone would do if the licensing people came round, throw the poor little soul out. What people need is education and not a stick.

[Erin Loves Dwarf Hamsters]

I have always thought they should just do a similar thing as they do with dogs.

1. Ban pet shops from selling them - reduces the amount of impulse buying, forces people to buy them from breeders. Although we may still get some people breeding randomly it would be reduced dramatically and those who had to buy from real breeders would be less likely to breed randomly because the breeders usually provide them with booklets on the hams including how to breed and the problems caused which would hopefully make people think twice.

2. Breeders planning on selling hams can take a free (or very cheap) course where a short but thorough examine is involve (all serious questions on breeding and general care) and then they earn a breeding licence giving them the right to sell animals legally. These can have ID numbers and all 'pedigrees' that come with the hams can include this number so that it can be backtracked if animal welfare gets involved to check that the breeder is legit etc. Animals rights groups would then have the right to remove a pet if a Breeder ID cannot be given or identified.
By only allowing breeders with licences to sell the hams legally this takes them all away from places like gumtree as new rules similar to eBays would have to be created to stop animals being sold. They could be rehomed for free though - again this would reduce impulse breeding as they couldn't make any profit but doesn't prevent hams from getting new homes if they need them.

3. Make a legal minimum cage size something that really is suitable. Again something to reduce impulse buying as we all know the bigger cages are much more expensive and a hamster would become a 'high maintenance' pet rather than a 'kids' pet.

4a. Like when buying most dogs a home check should be done. Someone will be employed or volunteer to visit the home where the ham will live before it is bought and will see where the hammy will be living and everything else that needs to be checked.

4b. Or because the above may be tricky to do Licenced breeders should ask to see photos of the cage with clear measurements (same with the wheel) and all of the toys and also be given a list of the pets that live in the home already and what room the ham will be in eg living room, bedroom etc - perhaps a questionnaire could be created for this - and the breeder can then advise the owner or even refuse to sell to them in worst case scenarios.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of flaws in my ideas but like I say, they're ideas.
Where there are laws and rules there will always be people breaking them and acting illegally, if something similar to the above was put into place even though some people may still sell hams illegally there would be considerably less than those who are currently living in poor conditions and being bred randomly and neglected. For the same reasons I can see where Austria is coming from, its not going to stop everyone but it will certainly stop most people and improve hamsters lives as a whole

[Amazing Miss Alice]

I agree with you 100% Erin about a home visit - or at the very least a responsible breeder ensuring that the facilities that the potential new owner is offering the ham is suitable. I am currently talking with a German breeder about getting a male Syrian and I have to provide all sorts of evidence etc. She wants me to send her a picture if where the little sweetheart would be living etc. She wanted to know my previous experience with hams. She wanted to see pictures of the girls and where they are living etc. I think that this is the bare minimum that a breeder should be doing.

Anything that reduces the number of animals subjected to neglect and cruelty I am of course 100% behind, that goes without saying, however a small part of me worries that this initiative from Austria might increase the number of shady breeders.

Here in Germany larger rodents and rabbits that are thorough bred and of show quality often get a small tattoo in their ear that identifies the pedigree. Obviously I am not suggesting this for hams, I mean can you imagine?! but still - finding a way to track the animal's heritage is a very good idea.

[kiania]

The same topic came up with regards to hogs. They are registered with a central (volunteer-only) group who keep track of legit breeders and lineages. It doesn't solve the spur-of-the-moment purchases, but it does keep an eye on inbreeding, at least with those that actually care about it (ie the good breeders!).

As for your DVD/piracy example (way back in the OP)...yeah, that is why I have a pegleg and an eyepatch - adverts are longer than the tv programmes I'm watching, and it takes 15 minutes to get through a DVD to the actual film Between me and my partner, we have a large DVD collection, but we also have a fair few hard drives Same with DRM in games - it only penalises those that buy the game legally - they get hit with the X amounts of installs, and must-be-connected-to-the-internet (in some cases), whereas those that bittorrent circumvent the pain in the bum that DRM is.

I know we would all (ALL!) like hamster (and other animal) owners to be responsible. We'd love to give them the perfect housing, and wish other people had the same desires. Same with food, enrichment, out of cage time, bedding, nesting materal, bathing sand, treats, wheel sizes and so forth. The problem is that, as has been said, the people that AREN'T researching are the ones that are going to be going, "Pfft, it is only a hamster...I don't need to go on a freaking course for a piddly hamster!".

That said, what might be a good idea is for schools to do a class regarding small animal owning - heck, even after-school clubs might work! Everything from handling, identification of species, what counts as 'small' housing, social groups, enrichment, etc. I know a few zoos do enrichment programmes with kids as young as 5 - shame schools as a whole didn't take up the animal welfare banner - especially in the UK which is considered to be a national of animal lovers (pfft!).

I remember a while back the reptile community was getting antsy about the government over here considering changing their policies from a black list to a white list. A black list is where any animal on the list is 'banned'. A white list is where any animal not on the list is 'banned'. Because of the time taken for each animal to test it for white-list status, a lot of the more exotic species might become (fairly suddenly) illegal to own, or breed.

While it would be lovely to have more licenses for pets, we want to avoid giving the governments ammunition to change policy to a white list as that will penalise a lot of very responsible exotics keepers (of which, I'm one ).

I am reminded of getting my 'driving licence' at Legoland Denmark...that was a hard thing to do, some kids failed it! Then at Winsor - you could cut people up, bumper-car them, or whatever, and everyone passed. My point being - perhaps (going back to involving schools/after school groups) it might be an idea to get kids who want X pet on a mini-course before they are allowed (and their parents on a similar one, as a parent'n'child exercise). Those parents who might later toss out a pet because the kid has lost interest, might put up more resistance to pleading if they have to sit through a 2 hour/day seminar on pet care before being able to give in! And might weed out the less persistant/desperate kids as well! And for pets that are for adults, a similar system, but without the kid-element tie-in.