Have been back to the Petshop that Desi came from

[Catja]

Plucked up courage today to go back into the Petshop Desi came from.

On the whole, the conditions were much improved, and a lot cleaner, they were awaiting new baby hamsters tomorrow, so they had one 4 month old unsold in the bottom cage, and one 14 month old in the top cage and what looked to me like a cage approx 25cm long ready. I suspect tomorrow the 4 month old will go into the top cage and the 14 month old into the othe cage, which will probably be put where I found Desi.

The 14 month old (where the hell he was when I got Desi I don't know) is I think a black eyed cream, although he has darkened off to a creamy ginger as they do.

They said he was still for sale but they doubted anyone would want him as he was over 12 months and had not been handled, so he would probably spend the rest of his days with them in the petshop, I pointed out if this was the case then shouldn't he have toys and a wheel. They looked at me non plussed and said well he had a large cage and his bedding. I said hamsters can run huge distances, to which they said well at least we haven't "got rid of him" and they were complying with the law, and of course they are right

When I went up to the cage he was very docile and inquisitive, I do not know whether you can tame older hamsters or not.

I have to keep telling myself I am not here to rescue every hamster I see, especially as it furthers the trade, although the desire for baby hamsters seems never ending, and they usually pop up on Preloved 4 months later Buts ita very hard to walk away.

[Bunsey]

well to be honest, i would have probably bought the 14 month old

could you buy him and then get someone to re-home him for you, like a member of the forum or something? hell, i'd take the poor fella myself if we didn't have so many!!

[Gust0o]

I said this on Fancy Rats, but maybe we should have a register for trusted pet shops - which meet our criteria for sourcing, and housing, their animals?

I think blanket criticism is dangerous - but I think cases like this should be highlighted, and communicated.

Maybe, if we could create this, it would give us some leverage for enforcing improvements?

[Matty Day]

or we could picket the bad petshops
or put leaflets througth peoples doors warning them about the bad ones and giving them a recomend list of ones to go to.

i think it should be law for the following things to be given at petshops

1 all cages must have wheels and toys no more than four syrian or 2 dwarfs to a gabber sized cage

2 all animals to be sold with a full pedigree or at lest infomatoin were they came from

3full care booklets to be sold with all animals

4 law to take a sick animal to a vet maybe free treatment to under 18s or people who have low funds like students

5 responsiblity of the pet shop to pay for costs of unexpected pregnanceis

and ot pay for the free vet costs we could impose heavy fines on people who abuse animals

[Hanlou]

I'm sorry but I think you did the right thing in walking away and I congratulate you for it.....

...the only scenario in which I would have relented and got the hamster was if they would give him you for free, then at least you are not funding the trade.

But you are right. There are absolutely no pet shops I trust - not if they sell animals. I would never buy animals from a pet shop again because as you so rightly said, you buy one, you therefore increase demand and in so doing free up a space for another poor hamster.

Most pet shops get their animals from rodent farms, not a nice beginning for the hamsters that end up in the pet shops and even worse for the poor mums that are forced to have litters back to back in horrible living conditions.

I *personally* feel that a reputable breeder would not sell to a pet shop - you don't know where 'your' babies will end up if you do, so there are no circumstances whatsoever that would make me feel ok about buying animals from pet shops.

I try and avoid pet-selling-shops, it's not always easy and admittedly I have shopped at pets at home fairly recently, but I do try to buy on-line or from my little local pet shop which happily does not sell animals. Then there is no temptation in the first place either.

[Basia]

Some very good breeders do supply petshops though, I can think of 3 off the top of my head and I know that their hamsters are excellent quality and tame.
I bred rabbits for many years and I supplied my local petshop (which has now shut down since the arrival of Pets@Home). I also sold privately through newspapers and selectively back into the fancy, which can sometimes be the worst option because some hobby breeders in rabbits are as worse than rodent farms.
Many people who want a pet have no idea where to start looking for a breeder, particularly of small animals, we hide ourselves away quite well. They will, therefore, always buy from petshops. If you trust your local petshop I can't see any harm in supplying them, at least the people will have a tame, well bred hamster as opposed to the very scared, untame ones which come from the rodent farms.[/code]

[Mollz]

Originally Posted by Basia

Some very good breeders do supply petshops though, I can think of 3 off the top of my head and I know that their hamsters are excellent quality and tame.
I bred rabbits for many years and I supplied my local petshop (which has now shut down since the arrival of Pets@Home).

I too can think of some VERY reputable breeders who supply pet shops, and if I cannot find homes for all of my babies then I may give a few to a petshop - but this is a very good, small petshop with wonderful, knowledgable staff. I have known the owners for years and they are wonderful. I have had rabbits and guineas from them for years (which are bred by them - the woman is a prize winning breeder - or their friends) and am pround to say that they have always been healthy, happy and friendly.
However I would never give any hamsters to pets@home etc. and would never buy an animal from there
I'm not sure that I would have been strong enough to walk away from the older guy, and maybe you could go in and offer to take him off of their hands for free - they may be happy to "get rid of him"

[Holly]

Oh Catja, I'm so sorry there is another poor little soul at that shop

I think, after Desi's wonderful story, that does highlight starkly the fact that, no matter how many you rescue, there will always be more to take their place.

At least the one in the petshop now is being fed and cared for (in a fashion) and, at least nobody is treating him horribly or feeding him to a reptile - or any of the other horrible things that get done to hamsters. In that sense he's better off than some.

Originally Posted by Hanlou

I *personally* feel that a reputable breeder would not sell to a pet shop - you don't know where 'your' babies will end up if you do

I, personally, agree with this totally for myself and my hamsters - I wouldn't condemn anyone else for letting their babies go to a petshop they trust to care for them but, at the end of the day, if someone else sells your hamsters for you then you have no information on who buys them or any say at all in the kind of home they go to. Given some of the horror stories we hear all the time and youtube videos showing horrifying cruelty I couldn't allow any of my babies to be sold by anyone other than me - to people I've vetted to the best of my abilities (there are no guarantees even with this but at least I'll know I've done my absolute best for them). I can't even sell mine at shows - I remember one boy and his mother buying a donation hamster at Rotherham - I wouldn't have sold any live creature to him and this poor hamster haunted my thoughts for a long time afterwards.

I'm kind of ashamed for succumbing to the lure of a very cute, inquisitive little face at P@H last week - I still feel the same way about the petshop trade in animals and I guess that really does make me a hypocrite - however I can't feel sorry that we have our little Aero, she's a darling. I just keep thinking about what's happened to her three P@H cagemates

[Spuds Mum]

Originally Posted by Hanlou

I *personally* feel that a reputable breeder would not sell to a pet shop - you don't know where 'your' babies will end up if you do, so there are no circumstances whatsoever that would make me feel ok about buying animals from pet shops.

I am certainly no shady character, however I do sometimes supply a pet shop that I have a very close relationship with. I trust them to discuss the animals needs and ensure that they are comfortable releasing an animal into that persons care. This pet shop often has customers who are waiting for my hamsters to come in as the pet shop know how much work goes into taming ours. And as my hamsters are sold through the petshop with their pedigree/birth certificates, I have had feedback directly from customers, so am assured that the pet shop are not just 'talking the talk'.

I hear what you say Hanlou, but think that, if you don't have rodent farms or breeders supplying pet shops then where would people get their much loved pets from? I am a breeder and a member of a hamster club, but I know there are no more breeders within an hour or twos drive from me. Many people would not be able to access these gorgeous creatures who so fill our lives with joy. At least the ones I supply are used to a home setting, being handled and played with, in the hope that this will increase the new owners enjoyment of their pet - and as an offshoot also encourage them to take such good care of them.

So I am afraid I will remain, by your definition, a disreputable breeder (and I'm not flaming you - just putting a different viewpoint across).

[Bunsey]

you certainly can't blame people for going to pet shops... there are no breeders within 40 miles of here. I do wish that people would at least try to find a breeder or rescue first though. most buyers seem to just go straight to p@h as they are none the wiser about any other options and they can see a big choice. I got my first hamsters from p@h until i went to hamster shows and then started finding rescues.