Hay? Needed in hamster diet?

[BrainGirl]

The thing about flaked peas and corn is that they're not made of the same stuff as the stems. (Trying to dig up what I learned more than a decade ago in horticulture school and haven't used since so bear with me!)

A stem has several specialized cells running lengthwise. Some are for carrying water and nutrients but others have extra thick walls of lignin (what makes up wood) for support so they don't just flop to the ground. Those are the bits that are sharp and can pierce skin.

Seeds are mostly carbohydrates to feed the growing plant embryo, provided it doesn't get eaten by a hamster first They aren't spiky though because they don't have to hold themselves up!

[Anthorn]

Originally Posted by BrainGirl

The thing about flaked peas and corn is that they're not made of the same stuff as the stems. (Trying to dig up what I learned more than a decade ago in horticulture school and haven't used since so bear with me!)

A stem has several specialized cells running lengthwise. Some are for carrying water and nutrients but others have extra thick walls of lignin (what makes up wood) for support so they don't just flop to the ground. Those are the bits that are sharp and can pierce skin.

Seeds are mostly carbohydrates to feed the growing plant embryo, provided it doesn't get eaten by a hamster first They aren't spiky though because they don't have to hold themselves up!

Well yes, most packets and bales of hay have stems and seed heads but most of it is or should be what we might call the "leaf", that is the top part of the grass. That's my point that hay is not hard and sharp or at least shouldn't be.

[BrainGirl]

If you're just getting generic hay then you have a little of everything in there. But you can still choose to get first cut or second cut at least and then you know you're getting more or less stemmy stuff. The nutrient values will differ between cuts as well. But it still contains stems if it's Timothy. One of the varieties that I have access too is just leaf but it's not Timothy and it's cut young before it develops a stem.

[Amethyst_ice]

I personally wouldn't know one hay from the next, nor would I think about microwaving or anything of the sort.

Even carrying hay around for bedding there is risk of scratches and injuries.

I don't see the point in potentially adding risk and harm.

The average hammy owner will not go into looking if they have the right kind of ay and if they should do anything to it. Therefor I think the advice to members to avoid or use with caution is valid.

In terms of research and "evidence", this is where things like HC where breeders and pet owners can share experiences and make own judgements. Like I said, there have been mites and pouch/eye injuries from hay pop up on here and that is enough for me to decide against.

If it is already added to mixes in pellets I ail to see the benefit of giving it straight

[BrainGirl]

I think that's an important point. I probably wouldn't have known there were so many different hay types if it hadn't been for my chinchillas. But they absolutely must have hay, and very specific kinds of hay. I know their pellets are made of hay, as are other pellets, but they are prone to dental issues if they don't get the roughest stuff going! Heck I give them pumice! Hamsters don't seem to have nearly the same need for roughage, dentally speaking.

[Anthorn]

Originally Posted by Amethyst_ice

If it is already added to mixes in pellets I ail to see the benefit of giving it straight

In short, teeth abrasion and a lot cheaper than commercial gnawing sticks and the like. But when eaten it contains useful amounts of protein and fibre, is used for nesting and is a natural organic plant product, better than tissue paper, toilet tissue and (very expensive) purpose made paper nesting and paper wool.

But I'll edit my OP re. stems in view of the discussion.

[Amethyst_ice]

I buy a huge pack of willow sticks for £1.79 (commercially available). A bale of hay is more than that and messier.

Most members don't buy the cotton nesting or indeed any nesting and simply use cheap toilet paper shredded.

So cost wise I don't think hay has benefits over the risks

[BrainGirl]

The other thing too is that some people have terrible allergies to loose hay. One thing you might consider as an option if you must use hay (that those with allergies have mentioned as not being a problem) are hay cubes. The hay is chopped up and then compressed, basically they're giant pellets! My chinchillas hate them (of course my little brats are spoiled) but it might be an option

[Silver]

I can't go near anything even remotely looking like grass fresh or dried. If I had read the start of this thread I would of thought it was a needed thing not if you want to use it

xxx

[HollyHamster]

Hamsters in the wild would use dried grass and sedges to line their nests and nibble on, and hay is just grass, so its not a stretch to say hamsters would like hay, but yes, I don't see the benefits of using hay in an captive environment where we have other alternatives give a hamster to line their nests with, with hay being so dangerous to hams.