Titch & Tiny - My Daughter's Russians(?)

[Elaine67]

I bought these lil guys from pets@home on the 4th June, believing them both to be Russian Whites and no more than 10wks old. However, while Titch (on the left) is clearly Russian, we've become less sure of Tiny's lineage. They were in the same small, glass fronted display cage with heaven knows how many others (the others were all asleep in a big, furry heap) and seemed ideal as they were different colours (easy to tell apart) and obviously very close chums - despite the size difference.

Heaven forbid that P@H made a 'Tiny' mistake - but since we've had them both my daughter and I have become convinced that Tiny is actually a Chinese or at least a hybrid. He's considerably smaller than Titch, is lighter coloured as well as being a slightly different shape - more streamlined - for want of a phrase! However, they remain the best of friends - but we have a spare cage on stand-by - just in case!

My daughter's done an excellent job getting them super-tame and she brings their cage into the living room most evenings so we can all get to share them - and they get to explore us lol.
Sorry, they don't look very different in the this photo - I'll take separate pickies of each of them later.

Thanks for looking.
Elaine

[SinNyx]

As they are both from P@H, they will both be hybrids - even if Titch looks more like a purebred WW/Campbell, he would be a hybrid as well, some hybrids just look a little more like a purebred. I can confirm that Tiny isn't a Chinese though, as they would look very different!

Well done on having a second cage, it's better than being caught off guard one day, I hope they both keep making a lot of progress and of course, stay friends

[DrKMcK]

They are adorable. Having that second cage is just good common sense. I had two Campbells and they lived together until the death of Toffee. They never fought but I was prepared for the worst. I hope they do well. Keeping to the protocol for pairs religiously gives them a better chance of succeeding, although it isn't a guarantee. No levels, two wheels, scatter feeding, houses and toys with more than one exit so no one gets cornered...all keep hammies happy. Your daughter's work with them is wonderful.

[kyrilliondaemon]

Yup, P@H russians are all hybrids - the shop've even confirmed it to me in an email before. They are definetly both hybrids and hybrids do sometimes have different body shapes - my hybrid girls Polly and Boo have different shapes, Polly has a slimmer build while Boo has a more chunky build and our two are definetly sisters (they were born here when we fostered their pregnant Mum).

[Elaine67]

I am disgusted!

I'll be in my local store either tomorrow or Tuesday. I was going today - but the mood I'm in means it's not a good idea. It's a shame it's a bank holiday weekend or tomorrow I'd be phoning trading standards - probably from the shop. If the various cages stated that their stock may not be what they appeared to be - fair enough... However, to sell stock as one thing, being fully aware that they are not - that's fraud amd a viololation of the sale of goods act. I've just checked the reciept - it states that I paid for 2 RUSSIAN hamsters.

It's too late to do anything about Tiny & Titch. I always thought that Tiny was a mistake - they happen. However, it is outrageous that they are knowingly selling 'fakes' and concealing it from customers who are buying from them in good faith. They probably rely on the bonding effect stopping customers doing anything!

It'll be interesting to see what the local staff have to say. I'm one of those people who looks 'em straight in the eye as well as writing to their head office.

Thanks for the most enlightening info.
Elaine

[Colby and the Dwarfs]

Originally Posted by Elaine67

I am disgusted!

I'll be in my local store either tomorrow or Tuesday. I was going today - but the mood I'm in means it's not a good idea. It's a shame it's a bank holiday weekend or tomorrow I'd be phoning trading standards - probably from the shop. If the various cages stated that their stock may not be what they appeared to be - fair enough... However, to sell stock as one thing, being fully aware that they are not - that's fraud amd a viololation of the sale of goods act. I've just checked the reciept - it states that I paid for 2 RUSSIAN hamsters.

It's too late to do anything about Tiny & Titch. I always thought that Tiny was a mistake - they happen. However, it is outrageous that they are knowingly selling 'fakes' and concealing it from customers who are buying from them in good faith. They probably rely on the bonding effect stopping customers doing anything!

It'll be interesting to see what the local staff have to say. I'm one of those people who looks 'em straight in the eye as well as writing to their head office.

Thanks for the most enlightening info.
Elaine

Woah woah woah. You will NEVER, EVER, EVER find ANY pure Campbell's/Winter whites in any pet shop. They are ALL hybrids. They aren't selling fakes. They are indeed hamsters, and are just as hamster as any other.

There are five species-

Winter White
Campbells
Robo
Chinese
Syrian

"russian" is not a species. It is another word for hybrid.

Two of those, Campbells and WW, can interbreed. There are incredibly few pure of either species, and only breeders and people who have bought from breeders have them.

If you don't have a pedigree, your hamster is hybrid. Russian = Hybrid.

[Elaine67]

Ahhh... OK,

I've never read that in any of the books I've bought - but it does make a sort of sense.

As a life-long pet owner and breeder or various species (albeit many years ago) I know you can't legally sell a cross-breed as a pure bred or even worse, pedigree. The latter requiring falsifying paperwork - which is why I checked the receipt as it's not only the proof of sale - it's also the only paperwork stating what I bought.

I suppose it doesn't really matter if -like the 2 I bought- the animals are strictly pets. The pleasure they give isn't effected by their genes.

I'm hoping to find a Syrian for my younger daughter at a show next weekend. At least I'll know a bit more about it.

I thought we/I'd done all the homework. Looks like I'll have to trawl through 'em again.

Thank you for the explanation - it's very good to know.
Elaine

[spyro87]

I'm also going to a hamster show next weekend and I hope to pick up a pair of purebred dwarfs
But, that's because I knew before hand that when P@H states "Russian" they mean hybrid.
They actually state some will turn white in winter (like Winter Whites) but it all depends which you've got, basically which of the genetics the Russian picked up most of from their (WW/Campbell's) parent.
But either way, P@H don't sell pure WW or Campbell's. The only pure dwarfs they sell are Robo's.

Eta however. If they're P@H dwarfs. Double check and triple check the sexes... Especially given the apparent size difference...

My friend had 2 "females" turned out the littlest one was a boy o.O

[ianpallen]

Very cute hams you have there.
Campbells and winterwhites, even hybrids, can look the same. Campbells are more 'streamlined than ww. Campbells heads are larger than ww. Even in hybrids. I was looking for another ww and thinking of breeding Screech with it, but I was put on the right track and it could / would be dangerous for Screech to have babies. As I had Screech from P@H, she is a hybrid. I would not want to endager her life just to have a couple of babies from her. I will enjoy her and spoil her as I am doing now. Maybe one day, I might be lucky and have a pair of unrelated pure bred WW.
I hope you enjoy your hams as much as we all enjoy and love ours.

[cypher]

I'd love to have a pure WW too but all my hybrids have been the most adorable pets & I'm sure yours will be too, they look lovely