Pffffffff just feeling a bit rubbish.

[Pompompoms]

I know loads of people on here have been through robo separation and reintroduction, sometimes it works well, sometimes despite everything it does not.

I've had to accept today that Dasher and Billy aren't going to go back together, and I'm just feeling rubbish that they're going to be spending their lives and single robos now. They've lived together since Billy was four weeks, and they were so unbeliveably cute together. Mega Dasher and tiny Billy, always together. As Billy grew up he adored Dasher, then came the hormones, and it all unravelled from there


They've lived either side of the divide in the ZZ for a few weeks now, they spend all their time sat next to eachother cheeping and touching paws. If one is out he will cheep and the other will come running to sit by the fence, I was sure they were going to settle together again. Sadly not though, they have been reintroduced three times, and each time has ended in bloodshed. I have now gone through all stages of reintroduction, and have to accept it's just not going to work. I can't bear to see them hurt and actually feel really upset I sent them in together again knowing they might hurt eachother, and they did. Every time, Billy panics, which makes Dasher panic then the lock on to eachother. Dasher is so big and strong It wouldn't take much for him to kill Billy, Billy bites when frightened, and has put a nasty hole in Dasher's stomach.

Logic says I couldn't have done anything more, logic says they will be fine in their new homes, that Jam and The Cloud were fine so they will be too.

Emotions say I'm a crap hamster mum, it's my fault they're hurt, I've let them down, the mini duna isn't big enough for Dasher, they'll hate it on their own ect ect ect.

Ah sorry for the big moan everyone, just knew people here get how I'm feeling right now.

[Hamtastic]

Aw you're a wonderful hamster mom! Anyone here can tell you that! Really, I'm not just trying to flatter you. You do everything you can to make your hams happy, and it's not all up to us. Sometimes hams just know better what they want.

I'm afraid to breathe on my girls' aquarium, as they've been okay for 2 days now. I put both wheels in late last night, as Leela was getting agitated and bored without them, and so far so good. My intuition that a larger space should have been okay was right, and it was more about the right way to introduce the extra space while working around Leela's hyperactivity issues.

That's not to say that things will continue going well with them. Leela has her days that I call "hormonal", though who knows what really happens, but she is very agitated every 8 days or so and can well start chasing Viola again.

After 3 fall outs (Leela + Dora, Viola + Olive, and subsequently Viola + Leela), I decided that I was going to go with what the hamsters decide and not feel too upset over it. Perhaps keeping a pair in a large cage with a meshed divider to provide a "sort of" roommate situation permanently.

Have you been swapping Dasher and Billy's wheels back and forth without washing every day or two? I did that with Leela and Viola to make sure their scents kept mixing. There hasn't really been bloodshed between them, aside from one small bite in the beginning a while ago. With Viola and Olive, there were consistent bum bites, and Dora just goes wild on any hamster that I try to introduce to her, so I pretty much closed those introduction possibilities. Are Dasher and Billy having bloody fights even in a small cardboard box together? If they settle down there, there is hope for them!

How about trying to combine with other hamsters? Either your own to try a colony (like Erin did) or a friend's, if you have any with robos? My little Olive worked out with my friend's older hamster Bud very well, and Bud was very aggressive toward other robos for a while before Olive--she just happened to find the right ham for herself.

Another thing to try, if you haven't yet, is to let Dasher and Billy settle in separate cages for a bit and then reintroduce in a small container. Olive did not want to accept Bud for a good hour. Bud kept chasing her, trying to snuggle and sit on her, and Olive kept being very defensive. Took half an hour for her to stop boxing Bud off and another half an hour for her to finally allow Bud to squish her into a corner and sit on her. (Nowadays they are all lovey dovey, best friends forever, etc.) When I tried introducing the two of them a week before that, Olive was freshly wounded and bullied by Viola and was just too skittish for Bud. Bud did not accept her and chased her off. When Olive calmed down living on her own for a bit, she regained some confidence, and Bud literally saw her in a different light! Bud went from "Don't like this hamster" to "Who is this cutie, I need to snuggle her immediately!"

Anyway, big hugs! You're doing great, please don't overanalyze it

[souffle]

Aww Pompoms you know you are a great hamster mum and you have tried your best for them.
Try and not think of it from a human viewpoint. Don't give them human emotions because they aren't little people in skins are they - they are hamsters and have hamster instincts and behaviours. At this age I would imagine they would be like teenage lads and would be seeking their own space and individuality and also probably mates of the female type. It's not normal for them to live in single sex groups really and I feel sure they are more that happy to live on their own without having to bother about where the next attack or food tussle will come from.
They would get injured in the wild if a fight happened so that is just part of life I think. They cannot establish a peaceful pecking order and you have tried so your next challenge must be to accept their decision. It will lay easier on your mind when you know there is going to be no fighting issues when you are not around
They won't hate it on their own pompoms because they will soon adapt and get used to it.
If you can, put them far from each other to allow them to settle now and I hope that you also settle it on your mind because you did what you thought was right because you love them xx
You are a lovely robo mum - never doubt that x

[racinghamster]

souffle made some decent points there regarding same sex hamsters and not truly tolerating one another in the wild, so we shouldn`t really expect it in captivity. Also, if one lad is visibly bigger than the other, then they will be mis-matched in size and the bigger one will inevitably come off best in a fight. I would have given up at the first signs of blood to be honest. They will be absolutely fine on their own.

[Hamtastic]

It's worth it for robos to keep trying, Racinghamster. To a good measure, of course, realizing when best to let them be. The difference between a robo in a pair/colony and a single robo is noticeable in terms of how calm and "happy" they appear. In my experience, and on Tammy's website, it's recommended that robos live with friends whenever possible. They are such fickle animals that the smallest things can make them fall out with one another, but that doesn't always mean that all hope is lost.

[Pompompoms]

The last two weeks has been swapping them back and forth every few days so they completely smell of each other, they've been in each others wheels, in each others nests, but it hasn't seemed to help . I introduce them in a neutral space as the first attempt in the cage didn't go well and so I removed the chance of it being any sort of territory issue. If I had a spare ZZ2 I'd set them up as neighbors as they seem happy that way.

I have toyed with the idea of putting Dasher and Whizz back together, and trying Billy with Rolo. The thing there though it that I'm risking breaking up a perfectly settled pair. Plus Rolo can't cope with being at the other end of the cage from Whizzbit, let alone taken away from him

Dasher is still very much in his prime, and Billy I think is becoming very apha male which Dasher isn't having any of, so you have two top dogs trying to share a space. Rolo must be quite testing to live with as he's glued to Whizzbit, and constantly grooming him whether he wants it or not. Whizz is the most laid back charater of all my hams which I think is why they work, I couldn't see either Dasher or Billy putting up with it to be honest.

I might try Dasher and Whizz when they are slowing right down so they can live their retirement together.

I can't see all my boys gelling together at all at the moment so a colony wouldn't work, and I couldn't consider even for a moment any of them going to live elsewhere. I did want to keep trying, as I know Billy struggled on his own, but I saw Jam struggle on his own to start with too, and know he settled down and had a lovely life.

I did think hard about whether to try them again after bloodshed, but you have to take the situation as a whole and what led to the bloodshed. There was never one random out of the blue attack, I would never have put them together thinking the only possible outcome was going to be out and out violence from the off, I love them too much for that. I don't believe I have done anything wrong by trying several attempts at getting them back together their behaviour has indicated that the outcome would be positive everytime, and I wanted to give them the chance by going through every stage of reintroduction.

Thank you all for your lovely words I know I do my best for them, sometimes all you can do just isn't quite enough. It's been three years since I had to split a pair, and I think I'd just forgotten how horrible it feels.

[Tammy22]

Hi Leila,

sorry to hear they are refusing to live together happily.

As i was reading your post i was thinking to type the same kind of thing as Souffle and i really agree with what she has said, sometimes we do try to treat them like little people and give them human like personalities, but they after all animals who have natural instincts to protect themselves and to try to reproduce. I think males' natural instincts are to fight away any other males and mate with the nearest female!

Like you have said some pairs do work, but some dont and after all you ahve tried to do to keep them together you definitely cant blame yourself for anything as they have been given more then a fair chance to have company but have rejected it and there is nothing else you can do.

I know 100% that they will still be completely happy living alone as they will get mroe than enough attention from you So please dont be sad, you know they couldnt have a better home!

Tammy x

[Hamtastic]

If Rolo and Whizzbit are doing well together, I wouldn't split them up for just a chance of Whizz and Dasher getting along. But you could try introducing them in a play pen area in controlled conditions to see what happens. All four of them or 2 + either Dasher or Billy.

P.S.: oh yeah, females! Maybe a good idea to try and keep the females quite far from the male corner

[Mikayla]

I am scared to death of chinchilla introductions and hamsters are much MUCH worse but I just had to reiterate the point that you are an amazing hamster mummy and any ham would be lucky to have you. (((HUGS)))

[MummyofMonkey]

I know how you are feeling. I felt really useless and a bad mum when I had to separate Orton and Cena.

In an ideal world we would all want our robos to have company but sometimes it is just not to be.

The thing that scared me with mine was how much damage Cena caused to Orton in one night. I checked them each day for signs of fighting so I know the injuries were caused in one night. Also mine showed no signs of fighting during the day, they slept together and seemed really happy.

I think you have got to give yourself credit that you have done everything in your power to keep them together and two single robos living alone is far better and makes you a better mummy than one dead or two badly injured hamsters.

Remember you have done your best and that makes you a good and responsible owner