Robo squabbling

[daffee]

We've had our robos, Sprite and tango for 2 and a half months and things have been going well. But now we have noticed that they have started to squabble and fight and so would appreciate some advice on how much fighting is ok and when it becomes necessary to separate.

We first heard this strange hissing noise a few days ago and it took us a couple of days to realised it was robo fighting noises. We here it pretty much each evening now, and although they still sleep together, Tango has a bit of a wound on her rump. It's like a big graze. We can't get a close enough look at it to see if there's a gash but it doesn't seem like it.

We don't want to separate them unless we absolutely have to as we strongly believe that all social animals should be given every chance to live with others. But we don't want Tango to be bullied and unhappy. With rats (of which we know a lot more) fighting is natural adolescent behaviour and helps to set the hierarchy. Could it just be a bit of over-exuberence on Sprite's part or does it always mean that they won't get along?

Advice, suggestions please

[Christine Yule]

Are they both females? If they are a boy and a girl, separate them immediately.

If they are the same sex: I know what you mean by wanting to keep them together and only separating as a last resort. I feel exactly the same way about my Robos.

It sounds like the girls (if they are both girls) are maturing sexually and are fighting for their own territory. In my experience, if there is a gash on one hamster, it will only get worse. "Normal" squabbling among Robos, never involves wounds of any kind and never any verbal noises. You should keep a VERY close eye on them over the next day or two and if there are one or two more bites on the one's bum, then you should separate them. Don't let it get too bad though, since one could get bitten too badly and might need to see the Vet. They fight at night and even though they sleep together in the day, does NOT mean that all is forgiven. One could still kill the other during the night or chew up ones' bum until it can't defecate anymore.

You can try to give them more space by switching or adding somehow to their enclosure. One common mistake people make is thinking that because Robos are tiny that they only need a small space. However, the opposite is true. They are the tiniest hamsters BUT need the greatest amount of space. Two Robos should be in an aquarium that is AT LEAST 20 gallons. The bigger the better. If they have a huge enclosure you could try creating two areas like putting a wheel, water dish, food bowl in one side of the enclosure and another wheel, water dish, and food bowl in the other side without a physical barrier and see if that makes them happy. Make sure there are lots of solid hiding places for the one to protect herself from the other.

But, you may find that you still have to separate them. I have some of my Robos caged alone because they just couldn't get along with any of their siblings. I find that they do fine alone. I do put their glass aquariums right up against each other so they can see each other. I don't know if that helps or not. Syrian hamsters bond to their owners and respond to being handled and played with but I have not found that with Robos. I pick up my Robos but they never seem to enjoy it or get any "emotional" benefits from being touched by me. I guess that is just their nature. Just try to keep their life interesting by constantly changing their toys and the position of the things in their cage. They seem to love tubes and digging in deep shavings etc.

Hope this helps. Keep us posted how things are going. I'll check back soon.

Hamstermama

[daffee]

Thanks for the advice. Doesn't sound good though does it

Yes they are both girls, sisters. I will definitely keep a close eye on them for the nxt couple of days and see if I can get a better look at the wound this evening. We knew that they can get aggressive to each other and that separating may be necessary but it will be very sad to actually have to do it.

They don't live in a tank as I struggle to lift them. They are in a savic rody hamster plastic tank with 2 wheels, 2 houses and we loose feed to try to prevent this sort of thing.

I have read quite a few people have succeeded in re-introducing their robos after aggression and wondered whether this is age-related? Could they mellow out a bit once they've got over their teenage months?

[Christine Yule]

I don't know what kind of success others have had re-introducing females.

I haven't had any success at all doing that with the same sex, males or females. I think I would say that the sisters are even more territorial that brothers. I have kept brothers together longer than sisters. I think it may be because the females are definitely the dominate ones of the species. Even in breeding pairs, after the babies are born, I have always had to remove the father in order to "save" him from the vicious bites of Mom. In one case, I saw that "Mom" actually forced "Dad" sit facing the corner most of the time, far away from her and the babies. It seems comical but she really bullied him and bit his bum so badly that I had to separate them.

I think that we are all learning that just because they are consider "social" hamsters, they are very, very sensitive in captivity.

Hamstermama

[souffle]

I think ,though called social, often in captivity this does not work. In the wild these animals would be social but they would have much larger territories, a much busier lifestyle searching for food, tending to young etc and most importantly I feel, they would not live in single sex groups of pairs. There would be a range of ages around of both sexes and they would have a choice if they wanted to run far away which cannot occur in captivity. Many will be bullied and fight but on the whole there will be a much more balanced social group.
Snuggleham had some success with reintroducing her two females Muffin & Cupcake so it is possible. I think they are still happily together. Be very careful though as they may just simply not want to be together and it may end in heartache.
http://www.hamstercentral.com/forum/vie ... php?t=1717
See this thread

[Christine Yule]

Thanks for the thread, Souffle. There is some hope, Daffee! Maybe when the girls get older they will get along!

I try once and a while to see if any of my Robos are open to the idea of having a room mate. I have recently put together a male and female who are both about 2 years old. I know that the females breed in the first spring after they are born and all though I have never bred her, I figured that she wouldn't likely have any litters. If she did, I would have been happy since I have lots of room for more Robos. But, no babies and they are getting along fabulously. No biting or even boxing! Buddy, the male is very submissive and let's Holly, the female do all the "housekeeping" and she seems to prefer it that way. She keeps everything organized and in its place. This pairing has worked but I wouldn't recommend it for others to try since babies are a possibility.

So, I guess we just never know when two will decide they want some company. I think it is a good idea to try once and a while to introduce ones that have been separated. I usually can tell within about twenty minutes if they are going to accept each other.

Hope all goes well Daffee!

Hamstermama

[daffee]

Thanks for the help.

We've managed to get a good look at the wound and although it is quite large it doesn't appear to be more than a graze and it isn't bothering her now. They have been a bit quieter the since the big bust up so we're keeping them together still for now.

There isn't a lot written about robos in hamster books but am keen to learn about their wild counterparts as well. Does anyone know of any good places to find out about them? I have the hamsterlopedia book but it doesn't have much on wild hamsters in it.

[flogging_molly]

when i first decided to get robos i also found there wasn't a lot of information in books about them. I had to rely heavily on breeders advice and the internet - just google "roborovski hamsters" and you should find a lot of information or ask dwarf breeders as they know the animal better than any book ever could.

[Christine Yule]

Originally Posted by flogging_molly

when i first decided to get robos i also found there wasn't a lot of information in books about them. I had to rely heavily on breeders advice and the internet - just google "roborovski hamsters" and you should find a lot of information or ask dwarf breeders as they know the animal better than any book ever could.

You are quite right. Roboroskiis are so new to the pet world that very little information exists about them. As breeders, we learn as much as we can from Internet sites and other people who have learned through experience and then try to spread it around. That's why I appreciate this site because it benefits hamsters everywhere.

I think that because Syrian and Chinese hamsters are used for experimentation in laboratories, there has been much more scientific interest and that's why there is more information available on them. It takes a great deal of time and money to study any animal and if there isn't a corporation with an agenda then it likely isn't going to happen. Our pet hamsters benefit because we use the information to help us understand and better care for them while the labs use them for experimentation. Not a nice thought but true I am afraid.

Hamstermama

[racinghamster]

My two male robos were together for a good few months after they came here too but then the blood was drawn on Tiny`s rump and I witnessed the violent chasing, boxing and biting that the other robo was inflictiong on the other. That was enough to convince me they needed seperating and they have both lived in a Rody tank each since then.

Tiny was also being denied food by the `bigger` boy, who would fill his pouches to capacity as if to steal all the best bits and leave the rest for Tiny to pick through. Tiny was so subdued that I was able to pick him up and see that he had these bad bites on his rear and dried blood. Even to this day, Tiny is the friendlies of the two, while Tubs will dart away from you the minute you go into the tank. He`s always been like that and it`s very difficult to handle him so I don`t!

I can`t comment on females, but as I understand it, they can be worse than the males for squabbling, so don`t wait until too much damage is done because I`ve known robos to die from these bites. x