Detolfs for robos and hybrids

[Hamtastic]

Looks nice so far! I love Detolfs!

There's a glass-cutting shop near me where I had the doors for my Expedit habitats cut and polished, and they charge $8 per hole drilled through glass, because it takes close to 20 minutes to make each hole. From that, I assume it's a very very slow and careful process.

Another thing to note is that a glass door of that size would be very very heavy to lift. If you're going to be drilling so many holes in some hard surface, I'd recommend spending time on making a wooden frame with stretched mesh for a lid instead--better ventilation and lighter.

[vanilla-yazoo]

umm can i make a suggestion...
it might be an utter rubbish idea, if so then ignore me..

the shelves are glass too?
could you use them for the lid?
something like
_______________________
###|-----|###|------|###
###|-----|###|------|###
this..

using a panel of the glass in a wood frame, then mesh, then glass
itl give you the airflow, but mean you dont have a solid bit of mesh over the whole thing..
you allready have the glass cut to size, you would only need to cut the mesh, and sort the piece of wood for the middle bits..

^^' sorry if its a bad idea

[kiania]

Originally Posted by Hamtastic

Looks nice so far! I love Detolfs!

There's a glass-cutting shop near me where I had the doors for my Expedit habitats cut and polished, and they charge $8 per hole drilled through glass, because it takes close to 20 minutes to make each hole. From that, I assume it's a very very slow and careful process.

Another thing to note is that a glass door of that size would be very very heavy to lift. If you're going to be drilling so many holes in some hard surface, I'd recommend spending time on making a wooden frame with stretched mesh for a lid instead--better ventilation and lighter.

Tbh, the Engineer is looking forward to having a go He got to learn how to drill tiles recently, and he's got the DIY buzz. If he wants to have a go, then I figure it might be worth trying first. We'd only be tossing the doors away otherwise, so no big whoop to have a go at glass drilling first - if it works, then it works. If it doesn't, we move onto other ideas. I really don't like the idea of a wooden frame, now that would be cumbersome as you couldn't just flip it up like the door could, as the door would be on a hinge. I also like the look of the see-through-ness as well. But, like I said, idea #2 is using perspex in place of the door, and having a hole cut out in the middle with the mesh, so there is a 3 inch (or so) border around the mesh - then it could go on the hinge.

I just really don't like the aesthetical appearance of the wood toppers people put on - I'd rather build it into the lid, rather than build on top, if that makes sense?

Originally Posted by vanilla-yazoo

umm can i make a suggestion...
it might be an utter rubbish idea, if so then ignore me..

the shelves are glass too?
could you use them for the lid?
something like
_______________________
###|-----|###|------|###
###|-----|###|------|###
this..

using a panel of the glass in a wood frame, then mesh, then glass
itl give you the airflow, but mean you dont have a solid bit of mesh over the whole thing..
you allready have the glass cut to size, you would only need to cut the mesh, and sort the piece of wood for the middle bits..

^^' sorry if its a bad idea

Glass shelves are already commandeer'd for use in splitting up the inside of the cage - and the same issue as above (only worse) with lifting the wooden frame off. If it was wire -and- glass -and- wood, it would be horribly heavy, and it wouldn't fit the hinge-like slots easily.

Like I said, a wooden dome frame is option 3. We've got two weeks to make a final decision, and after the Engineer has drilled 5 holes and 'tried it' and had enough, which will likely be perspex with mesh inside to fit the same size as the door - lighter, and same vents as a wooden frame lid, but fits in better. What I'm trying to avoid is the blistering pain of the Perfecto's sliding lids - you pull the lid towards you to get into the cage, where-upon you cannot reach inside the cage as the lid is digging in your tummy! Same deal with the wooden frame - taking that off will be a pest. Hence my desire to have it using the detolf's door hinge.

We shall see though - I reserve all rights to change my mind in the same way the Engineer likely will But going to attempt a few things first.

[TheFeldhamster]

Well, personally I don't like the optics of the dome version really that much. There's another option which I unfortunately don't have any good photos of because it's not mine and the person who had it no longer has it. I'll try to describe it to you. The idea is to build a frame from laminated chipboard in a color that fits your taste but not make a frame that lies flat on the Detolf but where the boards of the frame are vertical and about 10-15cm high. Inside that frame you can hide some wooden beams where you can fix the mesh on. Uh, is that understandable at all?

This has the advantage that the mesh should be out of reach (so no wire gnawing) and that the height is extended all over the Detolf not just in the middle where the dome is highest. And IMO it looks much better than that much mesh. I've only seen it built from chipboard but maybe you could do it from perspex/plexi, too.

As for the flip-up door - I'm not that sure if that is all that practical. When I interact with my hamsters I usually want both hands free so I'm fine with a take-off lid. If you have a flip-up door then it might be necessary to hold it open with your hand - or to devise some mechanism that will hold the door open. Well, it depends a bit on where your Detolf sits - if you can open the door more than 90° then you might not need it but you might want to think about that issue. The other thing that just came to mind is that you should look into some dampening mechanism or cushions/bumpers for the door when you close it. Because if it slips your hand when closing and the glass comes crashing down on the Detolf and there aren't at least some rubber bumpers then I'm not sure if it might break or anything. Esp. if you have all those holes drilled in the glass.

Another idea: you can easily glue stuff to glass with aquarium silikone. Once it's cured it's really durable. You could cut a big opening in the glass door and then put on the mesh with silicone. To make it look nice you can hide the edges of the mesh with aluminum strips on the top which also makes sure the mesh stays glued. The strips (eg 2cm wide) have enough surface area so the silicone will fix them securely to the glass. Just glueing naked mesh might not be durable because the wires from the mesh are so thin that they could cut through the silicone when someone pulls with a lot of force - even after it has cured (apart from looking baahh).

[kiania]

You mean like the 2nd photo from the bottom here:
[Detolf] SAMMELTHREAD Detolf-Abdeckungs-Ideen [2011] - Gehegevorstellung - www.das-hamsterforum.de
?

I was thinking more along the lines of this one (bottom post) - although I was going for a straight square shape for ease of cutting it!:
SAMMELTHREAD: Aqua-Abdeckungs-Ideen - ARCHIV - Käfige und Einrichtung - www.das-hamsterforum.de
Would work with the aluminium strips better if it was square as well - no idea where I'd get them mind you! But the possibility of super-gluing a narrow strip of painted wood around is okay - it is the huge wooden pine toppers that make me go, "Not in my sitting room!"

I was considering chains to hold the lid from flipping - but right now, the sofa is directly behind, if I open the lid to about 120 degrees, it would be sitting on the back of the sofa (soft, squishy one). The second one will have the wall behind it. Definitely wasn't planning on trying to hold that weight of lid and hamster-snag That is part of the reason I'd consider perspex over glass - just that much lighter to hoik up. I don't like the lift-off lids - already got two detolf boxes in here (ie the right size for a lid), and I keep tripping over one, and the other is blocking all the light from the door

I'm really leaning towards idea 2, the perspex with wire insert - the Engineer huffed and muttered about expense, but agreed it would be the most aesthetical in appearance, and useful in practicality (as well as being fine and dandy for ventilation as long as the cut-out was a sensible size).

Either way, aside from sealing, we've got 2 weeks to mull it over before Step 3 As I said before - I reserve the right to change my mind entirely I'm looking at as many custom cage pictures as I can in the meantime!

[TheFeldhamster]

Originally Posted by kiania

You mean like the 2nd photo from the bottom here:
[Detolf] SAMMELTHREAD Detolf-Abdeckungs-Ideen [2011] - Gehegevorstellung - www.das-hamsterforum.de
?

No. Not with mesh at the sides. Have not seen that version before. The vertical sides just with vertical pieces of chipboard. And the mesh recessed a bit at the top so it's not so obvious. It should look more like the better class lamp cabinet (? not sure if that is the right word) for an aquarium. Only makes sense if the Detolf does not sit all that low. If your main viewing angle is more or less from the top it would not look good. But if your Detolf sits on a desk like mine it would work.

with the aluminium strips better if it was square as well - no idea where I'd get them mind you!

Around here you can get them in any hardware store no prob. Where you are - no idea.

I was considering chains to hold the lid from flipping - but right now, the sofa is directly behind, if I open the lid to about 120 degrees, it would be sitting on the back of the sofa (soft, squishy one). The second one will have the wall behind it.

The one near the sofa should work well - the one near the wall - I doubt it. You want to think of some mechanism for keeping the lid up or it WILL come crashing down one day.

I don't like the lift-off lids - already got two detolf boxes in here (ie the right size for a lid), and I keep tripping over one, and the other is blocking all the light from the door

That's why mine are only half the lenght of the Detolf. If it's the full length of the Detolf it's impractical but half is really not a bad size to handle. That's less than 80cm in length. Cut one of those packages in half and try it if you want. Also, it usually sits on top of the Detolf anyway and only gets taken off when I interact with the hamsters, so really only in the room for short times. Even if - at least they don't block any light since the mesh is see-through anyway.

This is an old pic of my Detolf - with my (rather quickly hacked together) lids:

Detolf cage with lids von tina_6500 auf Flickr
If I had had any more time when I built them I'd have painted them black to match the color of the Detolf. But at the time everything had to be done quickly, so they didn't get to be the nicest in the world. Well, the Detolf sits only in our study, not in the living room so it's not the end of the world. I'd have higher standards for the living room


When I take them off they go in front of the heater (see front right of pic) - which is no problem since they are mesh anyway:

Detolf cage von tina_6500 auf Flickr

[kiania]

Ah, mine is on Lack tables, so the top is about mid-hip-high on me (I'm 5 foot), so main viewing is from above - although when I'm at my desk, it is from one side, and when we're on the sofa, it is a mix of the top and through the other side. Hence why I like the idea of perspex lids - makes it easier to see in than completely meshed, as mesh, from an angle isn't great for viewing. If we're going perspex, I'm thinking meshing the middle is a definite, but that'd still allow 3 inches around as clear viewing - everyone wins

I agree it'd need something to stop it falling down - I'd think you could get those runners that lock that people use for ottomans and chests fairly easy from the hardware shops round here. Not sure how to fit it, but I'll run the idea past my OH, see what he thinks as he's the one doing the hard work

I'm thinking up ways to do the insides (fairly sure I've cracked it), he's on lid mulling duty now.

But yes, what you have is pretty much Idea #4 (the domed lid is #3, but those two are fairly interchangable!). But it is in our sitting room, and so I'm iffy about wooden lift-off lids. We'll see, still got plenty of time for me to consider - anything would be better than the perfecto lids tbh!!

[kiania]

Forgotten what step I'm on (3 is it?) now

But yes, next step was sealing it. This involved me going away for a nice weekend to Bristol to a symposium conference at the Zoo, and my partner sealing the Detolf

I looked in P@H for sealant first, but they only had the smaller tubes for fixing rather than making aquariums, but they suggested Dobbies. After heading over there, I bought this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/King-British...0957035&sr=8-3
(as can be seen, also comes from Amazon ).

So the Engineer sealed it up. He used about 70% of a tube for one Detolf. The metal bars got horribly in the way, but he started at the accessable end, then did the sides - otherwise he'd have taken out the metalwork

He says he'd suggest taking the bars out so allow better access to sealing the Detolf (whether you want to replace them afterwards or not). Sealing the ends is easy with the bars, but doing the sides is really hard when they are in.

With our second one, he's planning to take the bars out, seal the long sides and one end, wait for it to cure, put the bars back in, then seal that final end in place

[TheFeldhamster]

If you are going to use that much sealant anyway you could perfectly well have the detolf without any bars at all. See here: Naturnahe Hamstergehege: Detolf mal anders

I didn't use any sealant on my detolf, just a little bit of cello tape at the corners where that plastic thing that goes between the glass sides not quite meets the wooden ends. That holds up well enough to keep normal bedding in (probably wouldn't work for a sand area, which is why I have a big sand bowl).

Edit: alternatively, if you don't trust the silicone alone you could cut the bars so that only the top rail remains and cut off the vertical and lower horizontal rails.

[kiania]

I wanted to do a bar-less one, but was told that it'd be a bad idea. Apparently it would lessen the structural integrety, and be more problematic to fix dividers (think there were other reasons, but those were the two that made me sigh and give up on my plans).

For future note, the bars provide some structural integrety during the construction process - the moment you get the Detolf horizontal, you can slide them right out without any issues!

But yes, hence why I kept the bars, and for Nimh, it has worked out okay as she is having a 1/2 and two 1/4s segmented off. For my robos, I may have other plans - I have no idea how I'm setting theirs up yet!

We were planning on having a full-depth sand patch (slightly altered now - but no giving away the surprise yet ), and it means we can slop about with cleaning as required without getting water everywhere.

When we come to the robos...for them, I may do bar-less, but then it may just look odd to have them different - oh the decisions! We may, yet, take Nimh's bars out as well - except them my partner might cry about having to pull off the silicone