two males together

[traste]

I went to my local PAH last night for dog food, and as I always do, I looked in the Support Adoption enclosures. And there I met two Chinese Hamsters, both male, hiding together under there logs hide.
After some persuasion from my daughter and I, my husband agreed I could bring them home.
Now, I asked the staff member about diet, habitat etc. She informed me that males are fine together providing they're from the same litter. As they get older they may have altercations, so provide lots of hiding places so they can feel secure.

On researching, the info I found conflicts with what she told me, and I'm told they prefer to be solitary.
They are currently around four months old.

She also said they can eat fruit and veg, yet I read they are prone to diabetes so avoid sugary fruit.

So who is right?

I'll get pics when I get home from work, they were sleeping this morning.

[souffle]

Youngsters (and these are quite young) will stay together but when they mature they frequently fall out. They really should be looked on as solitary in my opinion because when they fight it is very sudden and very vicious and can end in being fatal to one or both
I would suggest either separating now before anything happens or monitoring very closely for signs of anything at all that makes you think something will happen. Moving to a new cage may just trigger this over territories and food as well as raging hormones at this age.
They can still have veg - stick to things like brocolli and greens without sugar, Avoid very sweet foods like banana or pear etc and feed a good diet. For Chinese something like Harry Hamster or Burgess Dwarf mix is good with added budgie seed and millet as they enjoy small seeds.
Welcome to the forum.

[Scampi16]

Chinese are prone to diabetes, I have two Chinese I bought as boys so they could lve together (as per P@H) but I was given females, mine fought from the start and were separated. They can have fresh foods, but small amounts, more veg than fruit, fruit can only be given in very small quanities on a more rare basis. Avoid any sugary treats like honey coated seed bars etc.
Chinese are sold as being able to live together (or at least males are), most people are of the opinion that they are more like syrians and are solitary, I think that Chinese can sometimes live together peacefully, wereas Syrians could never live together, but be prepared to split them if necessary, so you could do with a spare cage handy. As they are 4 months old now they may have a bond and be happy together, but hamsters in pairs / groups can fall out at any time so just keep an eye on them. What cage do you have them in? They need a large cage with lots of hiding places, deep substrate and no levels, plus they need a wheel each or they could fight over one wheel, either scatter feed or have two food bowls.

[traste]

At the moment I have them in a Duna (I think) fairly big, grey plastic base, clear plastic top, with white bars for the hatch/opening.
There is one level that covers a third of enclosure, with a ramp and a wheel.
I've got the one food bowl, but lookong one here it seems they enjoy foraging for food, so I migjt scatter feed.
Shall I keep away from kiwi and stick to brocolli/carrot etc?
I'll chuck it a few sunflower seeds too, and a millet spray.

I have a toilet roll tube in there as a tunnel and will pick up some more bits.

Thanks for replies. I'll keep a close eye on them.
I have spare tanks I can use to seprate if need be

[racinghamster]

Congratulations on your adopted boys. Chinese hamsters are quite different from what you might expect from a `dwarf` hamster as they are not really true dwarfs. Chinese hamsters are very mouse-like in appearance (minus the longer tail!) and in behaviour. They love to climb and will `cling` to your hand when held. Since your boys are together, it`s vital that you scatter feed, try and keep a close eye on them for any tiffs or chasing/attacking. If you see any frequency with this, then I would separate before any escalations occur. That`s not to say they won`t have the odd squeak here and there, but signs to watch for are:

One being chased about often
One being bullied or afraid to sit and eat at the food dish if the other one is in there.
One looking thinner than the other and hiding a lot.

Just simple things really that may be signs that all is not harmonious. But if they play, groom, eat and sleep together without too much issue, then things could go fine. I`m with the others on the separation thing though as I wouldn`t keep a pair purely due to the high separations that happen with dwarf hamsters generally. But there are sometimes exceptions.

If you can, when the boys are fully awake and active (try never to wake them up to play) interact with them together without separating one from the other. If you have children, make sure they wash their hands before any handling in case of infection being introduced to the hamsters from hands.

The Burgess Dwarf mix is a good diet for Chinese as it has canary seed and sunflower seeds in it already. Try not to go overboard with veg but they do like a very small amount. Contrary to belief, a small piece of apple (half a thumbnail size a few times a week) is beneficial. Apple has a compound that actually helps human diabetes patients, so as long as they are not having apple every day, it won`t harm at all. x

[traste]

When we got them home, I set up the cage and placed their travel boxes inside, and opened them up. I left them to come out in their own time.
One came out pretty much right away and began exploring. The other one took longer and seems a little more shy.
Now, theres no difference in size or colour, and so the only way I can tell them apart, is that one is more active than the other.
I removed the bowl, and scattered food in around the substrate last night. The more active one ate some and mooched about.
The shy one came out after some time, had a quick look round then went back in the house.

I'm kind of thinking I'm going to end up seperating them.

They're both called Barry, for some strange reason *scratches head*
I don't want to change their names hahaha. So Barry1 and Barry2 it is.

[racinghamster]

Scatter feeding is good because it allows them to forage around and keep busy. You can still add a dish if you want to but putting a spoonful of food here and there will do the same job really.

Having a shelf in a cage is not always advised with pairs, but to be honest, you have a Ferplast Duna wish isn`t all that big, so I doubt that the shelf will cause any upset or territorial issues and you are watching them closely anyway.

It does sound from your description of them that one may be more dominant than the other and that can mean that the shyer, more subordinate one knows his place, as long as it doesn't cause him to be sheepish and scared to emerge or be active. In the mouse world, having two male mice living in harmony is rare unless the dominant mouse doesn`t become too bullying and the lesser, subordinate mouse doesn`t attempt to `take over`. Chinese hamsters are not mice however but the same rules apply in many ways. Watch for small signs and separate if any doubts are raised. x

[Vectis Hamstery]

Congratulations on your new boys. I hope they settle in well. In my opinion a mini duna cage is a good size for a pair of Chinese. I've found that using larger cages makes it more likely that pairs will fall out as each can establish their own territory in the cage. I prefer kitchen roll length cardboard tubes as it makes it harder for one hamster to guard both ends at the same time (I've seen several females trap their prospective mates inside a toilet roll tube and keep him there but sitting on the top and turning from end to end when he tried to escape). Also making sure hides and houses have more than one exit is useful, perhaps not using houses but having nest boxes from cardboard boxes with custom entrances.

Other toys I've found good for pairs have been logs (sold for fish tanks or reptiles in pet shops) which both provide cover and also break up the lines of sight within the cage. If the hams are feeling grumpy then not being able to see each other can help them settle down. I would suggest only doing partial cleans to keep the 'group scent' in the cage. A deep layer of substrate can not only provide a good place for the hams to hide from each other if necessary but also mean that you don't need to clean too frequently.

If there are signs of bullying (including fur plucking) or sounds of them arguing then you could try putting them in a smaller environment with fewer toys under constant human supervision for a time and see if that settles things, but if you aren't able to supervise them with this then splitting them would safer. If you see wounds then they really need to be separated. Things with Chinese can blow up suddenly and unexpectedly, even if they've lived happily together for months or even a year or so. I've found my Chinese rarely bothered after separation, unlike some other species that seem to miss buddies.

Good luck with your boys. I hope you enjoy having the best of the hamster species

[traste]

Thanks for all the advice.

They've both been out for a mooch this evening.
I even managed to get one to take sunflower seeds from me. I'll save them for hand taming and treat hunting I think.

Do you think it will be a good idea to move things around regularly, or will this just unnerve them both?

[Popcornandme]

I think you did better nuetur the males as they may fight.