Ferplast Duna Multy - Page 3

shazzy · 09-25-2010, 11:40 AM

No, cant say I ever found that - I always put a deep layer of Megazorb in and then could easily fit a wodent wheel, plus a number of other toys. I wouldnt call them a prison by any stretch of the imagination - the starter cage that Daisy came in maybe, but not the Multy...

fluffymunchkins · 09-25-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philosophyfox

Don't you find with these cages that by time you've put a fair and decent amount of substrate in it's impossible to fit a wheel in? These bowls are like prisons in my eyes

If the duna multy is prison, then the tiny pet shop cages must be torture chambers!
If the duna multy is the same height as the gabber rex, then i can't imagine there being a problem to fit an 8" wheel in?

Jesse · 09-25-2010, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluffymunchkins

If the duna multy is prison, then the tiny pet shop cages must be torture chambers!
If the duna multy is the same height as the gabber rex, then i can't imagine there being a problem to fit an 8" wheel in?

Yup, bags of room for the WW Jnr plus bags of toys, tubes, housing plus room to hang stuff from the bars. My girls love theirs but its personal choice I guess

mangoandmimi · 09-25-2010, 12:13 PM

? personally i dont see how its a prison (if your talking about the multy being one) i think it looks nice and spacious

Philosophyfox · 09-25-2010, 12:42 PM

It's just I hamster sat for someone in a bowl cage / Multy and I couldn't get the minimum level 6 inches / 15 cm substrate in and the 8 inch WW on top of it. There would have been no space for climbing things, houses etc.

I have my hamster in the German Hamster forum recommended bare minimum sized cage (a Hagen Big One: 100x50), and I feel that is too small, as hamsters, of any species, need lots of floor space to move, run and forage.

mangoandmimi · 09-25-2010, 01:01 PM

wowif thats a minimum then wats normal sizze ??!!

Philosophyfox · 09-25-2010, 01:13 PM

Most people aim for at least 120x60 as it gives a nicer running space. But of course bigger is better. I think it's a gradual process, some parts of Europe are catching on quicker than others (Germany and Sweden are two examples). We need to move away from the idea that hamsters are kids' pets and actually look at their needs. Wheel running studies has shown that hamsters can travel 13 kilometres plus in a night. And Hamsters love to dig. We as owners in the UK rarely give a thought to digging. Those towers you can get are too small for proper chambers and burrows. There's been studies showing hamsters provided with 40cm of substrate wheel run and bar chew much less than hamsters in 10 cm of substrate. Hamsters in 80cm of substrate wheel ran less and didn't bar chew at all. It's definitely worth taking into consideration. Animal husbandry should evolve, rather than being set in stone.

internet_nobody · 09-25-2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philosophyfox

It's just I hamster sat for someone in a bowl cage / Multy and I couldn't get the minimum level 6 inches / 15 cm substrate in and the 8 inch WW on top of it. There would have been no space for climbing things, houses etc.

I've seen research (for Syrian hamsters only) that suggests a minimum depth should actually be around 60 - 80cm before it offers any benefit (below this, there's no significant difference in behaviour/body weight etc)...so while it might be argued that 6" is better than 1 or 2", this can't really be scientifically shown. But then again, you can argue that as the "footprint" of cages used in lab tests is relatively small, perhaps a 15cm depth bedding in a 1m x 50cm cage is better than 80cm in a 50 x 30cm cage.

I don't keep syrians...so I can't really comment on cage suitability, but would always advise people to go as big as possible (though I might speak differently for dwarfs). If that "as big as possible" is a matter of persuading someone to pick a duna multy over a criceti 9 starter cage, then I think it is worth doing.

Philosophyfox · 09-25-2010, 03:46 PM

Your points are very valid I_N.

I thought other people might want to read the studies but the links aren't working for me to the original studies, but this article summarises them:
Naturenear hamster enclosures: Scientific facts like a hamster home to be constituted should

It's translated through Yahoo Babel Fish, so it's like hiccuping! It's takes a while to get used to the translations. I speak no German!

Quote:

Originally Posted by internet_nobody

If that "as big as possible" is a matter of persuading someone to pick a duna multy over a criceti 9 starter cage, then I think it is worth doing.

Of course a tiny cage is better than a very tiny cage. However, perhaps they should be discouraged from having a hamster at all if they cannot provide bigger. After all, would we be happy someone keeping a rabbit in a Ferplast 100 rabbit cage? Or guinea pigs in a Zoozone? Or would we discourage them because we accept basic standards?

I'm not just singling out the Multy in this (they can make fair hospital, quarantine and nursing cages etc.), there are many unsuitable cages for hamsters out there (Cambridge, Peggy, Ziggy, Duna Fun, Duna Mini, Critter 1, Critter 2! the list is endless).

Because hamsters have been seen as a kid's shoebox / pocket pet, should we treat them like that? They are 'exotic' as much as meerkats, sugar gliders etc, in that their needs are beyond the realms of most people to cater for. Surely we should be pushing the boundaries on cage size much further. As well as digging opportunities. I feel terribly guilty that's Im not providing substrate at 40cm min atm, but I'm hoping once I make my custom cage I can rectify this a little.

Having a hamster again has really made me aware of how unsuitable as companions they really are

internet_nobody · 09-25-2010, 04:22 PM

I wouldn't really say that the German minimums are necessary though...their hamsters don't seem to live improved lives (when you look at lifespan, incidence of illness, the only things you can really test empirically in a home setting) compared to those kept as pets in the UK. That said I am far from happy with many of the cages sold as suitable for hamsters, and prefer to use those marketed at guinea pigs (but would never put a guinea pig in one!) where practical (e.g. it is not fair to put an aged hamster who's movement is impaired in a cage where they have to climb or walk a long way to get food/drink).

Not having a go by any means (and this may well be your viewpoint), but you could easily argue (as is the RSPCA's bottom line) that companion animals fullstop should not be kept (though I think the RSPCA draw the line at "any animal which needs to be caged should not be kept", probably because they would loose a lot of support if they opposed the keeping of cats and dogs). People will get a pet regardless, telling them they need something like the hagen big one when they/their parents had a hamster in a single rotastak round pod in the past which was "fine" will not make the majority of people go out and spend £100 instead of £20. Things have to go in baby steps...companies are at last realising there is a market for such cages (i.e. the duna multy appearing with hamster bars, the hamster heaven, savic mickey 2xl), so as you say things are evolving. With any luck this means companies will see lowering sales at the bottom end of the market and ditch the cages small enough to be considered cruel.