Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Navigation
Front Page
Forum
Gallery
Wiki

Ads by Google


Go Back   Hamster Central > Hamster Central Forum Topics > Breeding Hamsters

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-28-2022, 05:32 AM   #1
heidii
Hamster Pup
 
heidii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: England
Posts: 200
Default Actually Ethical Hamster Breeders

// First and foremost, I want to say that personally I do support the intentional breeding of hamsters and other rodents. I understand the adopt vs shop, and for a very long time was a consistent advocate for adopting. I also really rely on people who want to adopt as I do take in hamsters to rehome them out to proper homes. To me, an ethical breeder is someone who wants to improve the overall health of a species, or conserve them if that is what needs to be done. Please don't come here to debate whether adopting is better, as I am quite set on supporting an 'ethical' breeder. I have 0 intentions of breeding, at least within the next few years.

--


Hi, everyone. Recently, my Robovroski, Pico, passed away. I still have my Syrian hamster, Neptr, but I am really gutted over Pico's death. Having no knowledge of his age due to him being a rescue, and constantly questioning if I caused it or could have prevented it somehow has really gotten to me.

Since Neptr is a pedigree hamster, I know his literal birth date. That does bring me some consolation as, given he stays in fine health, I know I will have him for hopefully 2 more long years. With that being said, I think some time in the future, I would like another Syrian Hamster. I was initially on the fence, especially since my family had brought up me getting another hamster way too soon after Pico's death, but after thinking on it, I do quite want one. I am still really upset over Pico's death, and don't want another hamster for the super near future, but I definitely want another hamster.

I want to know the day it was born, and the conditions it was kept in prior to it coming to me. I also want to support someone who ensures all the other hamster pups go to proper sized and enriched homes. The issue is I do not agree with the National Hamster Clubs. I've read up on loads of breeders, specifically located in the Midlands and South of England. However, I just don't agree with their care.

I got Neptr from Towy Vales Hamstery in Wales. He has really close genetic lines to Tristar and Bourne Valley Hamsters. I think I was definitely blinded by the fact that he was Pedigree and therefore the breeders complied with the National Hamster Clubs. However, after more research following getting Neptr, I've decided I don't really agree with the general care. I've seen some breeders (not Neptr's, specifically) say that they have "120ish" hamsters in their CURRENT care. Also, they recommend 1000cm2 cage for Syrians, and that they "love" to climb barred cages, with a thin layer of sawdust and one handful of paper bedding in the corner. This isn't Neptr's breeder, but it definitely goes to show how wrong I was for so blindly choosing him.

I think despite disagreeing with the NHC, I like the concept of Pedigree regardless as I do want to see the family tree, date of birth and the specific genotypes. I'm just really lost as to what I can do, as I want the Pedigree but don't want a breeder who solely complies on any of the NHC's. How many ethical breeders are there? I understand at this point I'd have to travel far out, but I am definitely more than willing to if it means I can get an actual ethically produced hamster.
heidii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 05:44 AM   #2
cloudy
PM Fluffy for custom title
 
cloudy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,740
Default Re: Actually Ethical Hamster Breeders

Heidii, you are in no way to blame for loosing Pico. He semed to have a nuerological issue and you gave him a wonderful home.

I can understand you not agreeing with certain breeders care advice but if their hamsters are healthy and you know the family history then surely that is okay? You can then give the hamster the care you think is best.
__________________
Guardian of Orko the robo.
cloudy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 05:56 AM   #3
Ria P
House of Hamsters
 
Ria P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 6,862
Default Re: Actually Ethical Hamster Breeders

I think that what you are looking for only exists in an ideal world but not in the real one.
__________________
Housemate of Rory & Rodney & Jack & Clive & Scottie & Finley

always in my thoughts Percy, Henry, Gordon, Edwina, Clarissa, Betsy, Ozzy, Monty, Romy and Gertie
Ria P is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 06:29 AM   #4
velma
Moderator
 
velma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 3,328
Default Re: Actually Ethical Hamster Breeders

As far as I understand it, hamsteries get their NHC for showing hamsters, rather than specifically breeding, although many hamsteries do breed their own show lines and sell pups as well, after they have decided who to keep. Some do breed other hamsters too. As NHC hamsteries, I l believe, sign up to a code of conduct. And each hamster species, and beyond that individual colourings have a standard that breeders are aiming for. These standards are based on ideal colour, pattern, size etc. So beyond personal preference for cages etc, hamsters are bred to be healthy. Breeders take time to understand genetics and only breed from hamsters they know the history of. I've seen several adverts online from NHC breeders saying they are "ethical breeders" and the intention is obviously a good one but it doesn't mean they are breeding healthily. |Some will have done their homework and some won't. They may have ethical breeding intentions but if the hamsters are pet shop hamsters in the first place, then the genetic background is unknown. And do they know at what age a mum hamster is too old to carry any more litters, even if she seems healthy? I think the best thing you can do is ask questions about how they are breeding their hamsters and find one you feel comfy with. You may disagree with their cage information, but after they come home to you, then they will be in your care and up to you to do what you think is best for that individual hamster. Because what I have learnt over the years from my own experience is that there is no one size fits all solution when it comes to housing, whether they've been big green sign pet shop hamsters, independent shop hamsters, adoptions or breeder hams. Different charities have different opinions on what is best too. So I think, trust your gut when it comes to a happy healthy ham and how they have been bred and take it from there.
velma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 06:55 AM   #5
sushi_78
Hamster Overlord
 
sushi_78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: London
Posts: 732
Default Re: Actually Ethical Hamster Breeders

Personally I don't feel that every aspect of a breeder's care needs to align with my own preferences in order for me to feel happy adopting from them but I do want to see that their highest priority is the individual welfare of every animal in their care. It's more about the right breeding philosophy than the specific standards.

That doesn't mean the care standards are irrelevant, far from it. I'm very doubtful that someone could advocate for keeping Syrians in 1000 sq cm cages (not that very many people seriously suggest that nowadays) while also having as a top priority and motivation the individual welfare of every hamster. The two things just aren't consistent. There are hamster breeders I would be happy adopting from and others I wouldn't. I do agree with what you are saying that it's possible to be blinded by the prefixes and the pedigrees and think it means more than it actually does.

Once I have seen a breeder has genuinely ethical priorities and motivations, I don't find it necessary to ask questions about their care because I can trust they are doing their best for their animals. I think that works both ways because when I adopted gerbils from a breeder (one of the truly ethical ones who I was lucky to find) I wasn't asked about every aspect of my care. I had already shown my enclosure and given some information about myself so I suppose that was enough for them to trust me with the rest.
__________________
Kebab (Syrian) and Tilly, Wispa, Astra & Twiglet (gerbils)

Last edited by sushi_78; 09-28-2022 at 07:20 AM.
sushi_78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 10:42 AM   #6
flowerfairy
Fluffy Hamsters
 
flowerfairy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 4,200
Default Re: Actually Ethical Hamster Breeders

Ahh one of my best ever hamsters came from Towy vale hamstery. Gopal was a long haired chocolate hamster and really big healthy and friendly.

Their cages were quite small but they clearly loved the hamsters and gave them enrichment. They were very well handled and given lots of yummy food.

I would certainly adopt from them again.

Sorry for your loss.
__________________
flowerfairy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 11:59 AM   #7
heidii
Hamster Pup
 
heidii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: England
Posts: 200
Default Re: Actually Ethical Hamster Breeders

Cloudy ;;

I think to me, when you buy an animal from somewhere, you are supporting/justifying that entire litters creation. With unethical breeders, they typically breed to see the miracle of life, because they like babies, etc. They can sell the animals for cheap, but the species overall health, longevity and genetic pool aren't considered. If no one was to buy from breeders who advocated poor care, then they wouldn't breed at all because there would just be too many hamsters. Therefore, I would only justify buying from a breeder who required basic things like a 100x50cm cage minimum, 28cm wheel, etc. It doesn't matter if I provide one of those pups with that, because the other 6 wouldn't get to live a life like that. Not sure if that makes sense, but it's how I've always felt about breeders.

Ria;;

I honestly refuse to believe there isn't going to be at least one breeder in the UK that requires updated minimum care to their hamsters. I don't think wanting a pedigree and for a hamster litter to have homes that have the minimum care should be unrealistic/an ideal world. If so, then that is a real, real problem.

Velma ;;

I definitely understand that. I know NHC breeds for show lines and overall health, but I've consistently found a majority of breeders to be really quite outdated. Suggesting things like pine shavings, a handful of teabag/paper bedding, high fat/sugar diets, etc. I think the specific member that I mentioned, who suggested 1000cm2 for a Syrian, and that they own "120ish" hamsters really threw me quite a bit. Seems like some of them do it just to hoard hamsters, and then the selling of the hamster is more so to unload their unwanted stock.

Sushi_78 ;;

Definitely! I don't think everyone needs to think the same as I do in terms of care. Hamster care has come a long way and it's safe to say me and other hamster enthusiasts have argued on certain topics. With that being said, I don't feel comfortable supporting breeders who are incredibly outdated. It's not that they don't agree on whether moss should be in a cage, if wooden wheels are good, if a certain bedding holds burrows better. It's them promoting softwood shavings, miniscule spaces (150 square inches for a cage!), etc. I don't want to support that specifically. I honestly think it would be easier moving to Germany to get a hamster at this point.

flowerfairy ;;

Neptr wasn't a massive fan of food when he was little, and weighs 175g now. A white long haired hamster. I only saw the temp cages they were in at a Dawlish show, and it was between Neptr or a beautiful ginger female. I think because of Neptr's temperament, I do want to try some other breeders that I've done more research into
heidii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 01:42 PM   #8
Ria P
House of Hamsters
 
Ria P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 6,862
Default Re: Actually Ethical Hamster Breeders

Heidii, i may have misread. I thought you were looking for a breeder who kept their hamsters and their offspring in minimum size enclosures until they were sold.

So, you are looking for a breeder who will only sell hamsters to people who know uptodate hamster care with minimum size enclosure etc? Same as rescues like Happy Hamsters for example.
__________________
Housemate of Rory & Rodney & Jack & Clive & Scottie & Finley

always in my thoughts Percy, Henry, Gordon, Edwina, Clarissa, Betsy, Ozzy, Monty, Romy and Gertie
Ria P is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 02:32 PM   #9
heidii
Hamster Pup
 
heidii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: England
Posts: 200
Default Re: Actually Ethical Hamster Breeders

It's okay! Yes, I want breeders who will only rehome to proper sized enclosures, similar to rescues, only I do also want to know the specific date an animal was born. I think I do want to keep rescuing/rehoming, but I do want a hamster that is handleable with a known birth date.
heidii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 02:57 PM   #10
Ria P
House of Hamsters
 
Ria P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 6,862
Default Re: Actually Ethical Hamster Breeders

How is Neptr doing? I'm only asking because you mention his temperament.
__________________
Housemate of Rory & Rodney & Jack & Clive & Scottie & Finley

always in my thoughts Percy, Henry, Gordon, Edwina, Clarissa, Betsy, Ozzy, Monty, Romy and Gertie
Ria P is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
breeder, breeders, hamster, hamsters, pedigree

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.43 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2003-2020, Hobby Solutions
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:51 AM.