Genetics questions, The Why do they, or what ifs of Coat colors

[AmityvilleHams]

Originally Posted by oddlyoblivious

PETA and the ASPCA typically go after the groups which breed indiscriminately for profit. Not to say that I always agree or disagree, but I'm not sure you could blame the lack of interest on these groups.

I think the expense of doing the hobby ''right'' probably plays a larger factor, paired with time.

Even groups like the 4-h clubs overlook Hamsters in favor of Rabbits.

I'm sure Vectis could probably chime in about the overhead aspects of a breeders association, and all the work that goes into the planing and hosting of those kinds of events.

It tends to be indiscriminate targeting of those that support these organizations which cause problems.Those who do not see the light and understand the difference between good and bad breeders are a huge problem,and they are absolutely everywhere.When people are so blind by these groups who seem to view adoption as the only option,it isn't helping to support a change in the way these animals are bred.It only means that eventually some countries may have an extreme lack of well bred animals due to discrimination.

In my experience at least,anyone who goes against adoption in the US tends to get shunned and harassed and told that they're doing a terrible thing no matter where they get the animal ethical or unethical.The UK is so different and it's great to see that.People aren't willing to see anything other than what organizations like PETA and the ASPCA say,and since they're in general against any and all animal breeding these organizations are not helping the ethical breeders in any way.

[oddlyoblivious]

Originally Posted by AmityvilleHams

It tends to be indiscriminate targeting of those that support these organizations which cause problems.Those who do not see the light and understand the difference between good and bad breeders are a huge problem,and they are absolutely everywhere.When people are so blind by these groups who seem to view adoption as the only option,it isn't helping to support a change in the way these animals are bred.It only means that eventually some countries may have an extreme lack of well bred animals due to discrimination.

In my experience at least,anyone who goes against adoption in the US tends to get shunned and harassed and told that they're doing a terrible thing no matter where they get the animal ethical or unethical.The UK is so different and it's great to see that.People aren't willing to see anything other than what organizations like PETA and the ASPCA say,and since they're in general against any and all animal breeding these organizations are not helping the ethical breeders in any way.

Seems like this is a discussion better suited to a different thread. Since it's getting way off topic.

[Pebbles82]

I am finding the whole breeding thread fascinating - there are some very complex areas involved in it both on an expert level and on a slightly political level I guess. As for welfare, that is something that needs stepping up in a lot of countries I think.

[Nancy's Hamsters]

OK so we have discussed the Umbrous question now whose got another really good genetics question to ask.

[WinnieTheHam]

Okay this isn't really a genetics question. But why are the Good UK show creams not 'cream' in appearance but a sort of peachy orange? Is the darker the better or is there too dark? I've seen some extremely dark creams that I didn't even think were cream until I saw them being judged together! I understand that it's their standards but what actually is 'rich cream'?

[Nancy's Hamsters]

This may just be a guess, but I think it may have to do with other color genes carried. Cinnamon carried on my Creams used to make them a very rich apricot orange cream. If a Cream happens to carry the DEW gene it often causes the base color to lighten up.

And of course Yellow gene hidden makes a very rich color cream too. (yet another reason to be so strict about not crossing Cream and Yellow genes together). A Cream masked Melanistic Yellow is in every way a BEC hamster Phenotypically BUT will have a much much richer apricot orange Cream color coat

[WinnieTheHam]

There are a lot of pure breeding creams here, Abe's fathers family tree were all BEC but a couple yellow far back in his lines. I understand that carrying other certain colours can change the appearance slightly but Buddy (Abe's dad) was quite a rich cream (but quite light compared to those that get top marks at the big shows). Buddy didn't carry cinnamon, because I would have had mink and REC in the litter if he did.

I was just wondering why the cream hamsters that gain top marks are really orange in colour - because orange isn't the colour cream?

I got this image from google but this is an example of what top scoring creams look like in the UK. I know it's genetically a cream but in appearance it doesn't look like the general cream colour. The paler versions of cream look cream in appearance, which is why I was wondering why do the ones that don't look cream visually, score higher? The standards say coat should be deep rich cream in appearance but this hamster looks orange/yellow?



It's difficult to explain what I mean, but I tried my best! I still think those hamsters are absolutely gorgeous though, but It's just something I've thought about

[Kissa]

I think it is just personal preference on the cream thing -- BEC in the UK at least tend to be richer and darker than the RECs, so it's not likely to be that they carry cinnamon in that case.

I'm sure someone told me once that the creams at one end of the country used to be a lot paler than the other end, as the breeders at the one end were breeding for paler cream and the breeders at the other end were breeding for darker cream. At some point the darker version won out! Now "deep rich cream" means something like a peachy apricot colour

[WinnieTheHam]

Originally Posted by Kissa

I think it is just personal preference on the cream thing -- BEC in the UK at least tend to be richer and darker than the RECs, so it's not likely to be that they carry cinnamon in that case.

I'm sure someone told me once that the creams at one end of the country used to be a lot paler than the other end, as the breeders at the one end were breeding for paler cream and the breeders at the other end were breeding for darker cream. At some point the darker version won out! Now "deep rich cream" means something like a peachy apricot colour

Yeah I thought it'd be down to preference, it doesn't match up to the name of the colour though! haha. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so it's a bit annoying how the 'perfect' cream isn't actually cream in appearance

[Kissa]

Originally Posted by WinnieTheHam

Yeah I thought it'd be down to preference, it doesn't match up to the name of the colour though! haha. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so it's a bit annoying how the 'perfect' cream isn't actually cream in appearance

You don't have to breed to the colour standard if you don't want to, just be prepared for your creams to not do very well in the shows!