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Old 04-23-2016, 04:07 PM   #1
Ellie&Monty
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Default What colours can you get with a yellow male?

Hello, so I own a yellow short haired Syrian male, and I was wondering if you know what colours you got when you breed him with different coloured hamsters..

I know if you breed him with a black/black banded you can get female torts, and when breeding him with mine I got

Sable banded = Goldens
Black Yellow = Yellow

Is anyone else able to help me out finding out what other colours hes capable of making with his genes?

Thank you
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Old 04-23-2016, 10:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: What colours can you get with a yellow male?

First you need to study Yellow genetics more.

What colors he can produce aside from saying any female pups will be Torts, it is impossible to predict with not known what recessive genes he, and his mate carries.

Sable is a cream Umbrous and crossing Yellow to cream is not at all highly desired as Cream masks (covers) Yellow so you will end up with a bunch of Cream/Sable colored pups who are actually yellow genetically IF your Yellow male carries cream. If he doesn't then 100 % of the litter will be Golden males and Golden Tort females

What color is Black Yellow? I am not familiar with some countries color names and many call one color by many names like UK= Melanistic Yellow for a hamster who has two genes of Black along with the yellow gene where in the USA they call the exact same color hamster a Yellow Black.

So the bottom line is if your Yellow male is bred to a female and she has no common recessive color genes to your male all you will get from him is Goldens with 100% of the females being Golden Torts.
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Old 04-24-2016, 12:57 AM   #3
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Default Re: What colours can you get with a yellow male?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy's Hamsters View Post
What color is Black Yellow? I am not familiar with some countries color names and many call one color by many names like UK= Melanistic Yellow for a hamster who has two genes of Black along with the yellow gene where in the USA they call the exact same color hamster a Yellow Black.
I assume "Black Yellow" is melanistic yellow/yellow black, as that's what the pedigree software I have defaults to calling it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie&Monty View Post
Hello, so I own a yellow short haired Syrian male, and I was wondering if you know what colours you got when you breed him with different coloured hamsters..

I know if you breed him with a black/black banded you can get female torts, and when breeding him with mine I got

Sable banded = Goldens
Black Yellow = Yellow

Is anyone else able to help me out finding out what other colours hes capable of making with his genes?

Thank you
Adding on from what Nancy said, it all depends on what your yellow boy carries and what the girls have/carry! And it is frowned upon to breed yellow and cream together as the cream masks the yellow and then it's then a devil to separate the two colours -- so I'd not pair your boy with creams, sables, minks, or any other colour that contains cream.

As yellow is a sex linked gene (the gene for the yellow colour is found on a sex chromosome, in this case the X chromosome), any yellow boy will produce only tort girls with a non tort female. Any other colours will depend on whether the female has a dominant (needs one copy of the gene to express) or recessive (needs two copies of the gene to express) colour/pattern, and whether there are any shared recessives with your boy.

If you pair your boy with a female that is any colour tort, all of the males will be yellow and all of the females will be golden torts unless there are shared recessive genes, or the mother also has a dominant colour/pattern gene.

If you pair your boy with a female that is yellow or any yellow combination colour (such as melanistic yellow, honey, etc), then all of the males and females will be yellow unless there are shared recessive genes, or the mother has a dominant colour/pattern gene.

If you pair your boy with a female that has a dominant colour/pattern (such as banded, dominant spot, silver grey), you will get a mixture of golden and whatever-the-female's-colour was males, and a mixture of golden tort and whatever-the-female's-colour-was tort females -- so a yellow boy and a banded golden girl will produce golden and golden banded males, and golden tort and golden tort banded females, if the female is heterozygous for banded (only has one copy of the banded gene). If the female is homozygous banded (has two copies of the banded gene), all pups will be banded.

If you pair your boy with a female that has a recessive colour/pattern (such as black, cinnamon, recessive dappled), you will only get golden males and golden tort females (that will carry copies of the recessive genes from their mother) unless your boy also carries a copy of the recessive gene. For example if your boy carries black and is mated to a black female, you will get black and golden (carrying black) males, and black tort and golden tort (carrying black) females. If your boy doesn't carry black, he will only produce golden (carrying black) males and golden tort (carrying black) females with a black girl.

If you pair your boy with a female that is a colour produced by more than one recessive gene (dove, chocolate, etc), you will only get golden males and golden tort females (that will carry copies of the recessive genes from their mother) unless your boy also carries a copy of one or both of the recessive genes common with the mother. For example, if your boy carries both black and cinnamon, mating him to a dove female will produce dove, cinnamon (carrying black), black (carrying cinnamon) and golden (carrying black and cinnamon) boys, and dove tort, cinnamon tort (carrying black), black tort (carrying cinnamon) and golden tort (carrying black and cinnamon) girls. If he only carries black, he will produce black (carrying cinnamon) and golden (carrying black and cinnamon) boys, and black tort (carrying cinnamon) and golden tort (carrying black and cinnamon) girls.

It is much more complex than saying "If I pair my yellow hamster to a blue hamster I will get green hamsters"!

As an aside to all this, hamsters do not like to follow the probabilities of what pups they will produce -- you will not get a yellow boy and a golden girl producing a silver grey pup, but you might get all golden males and golden tort females from a pairing with a black female even if your yellow boy does carry black and can produce black males and black tort females with that female!
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Old 04-24-2016, 03:01 AM   #4
WinnieTheHam
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Default Re: What colours can you get with a yellow male?

I will try make this as basic for you so you can understand.

Dominant - Only needs ONE copy of the gene to show specific traits.

Recessive - Needs TWO copies of the gene to show specific traits.

For example. The Cream allele (which is the 'code' for its gene) is 'e'. Cream is a recessive colour, so a hamster needs two copies, 'ee', in order to show the cream colour. A hamster can carry one of these genes and not show the colour because it's recessive and needs two copies of the gene to show the colour. So your Female and male would both need to either be cream, or carry a cream gene to be able to produce cream based offspring. Because you got Sable in your litter, both parents carried a cream gene, one of them also has the umbrous gene (which is a dominant gene so only one parent needs the gene to pass it to offspring). As others have said it is not good to breed Yellow x Cream because even if the yellow hamster has one copy of the cream gene, it will still drown out its true colour.

Here is an image explaining Yellow sex linked genes - http://www.largehamstercages.co.uk/i...yellowgene.jpg
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Old 04-24-2016, 05:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: What colours can you get with a yellow male?

Thank you for your help, this was very helpful and I didnt at all mean you would get a certain colour, I meant it in as thats what most people say youre most likely to get, I understand its still a lucky dip. I dont own my sable anymore, this was when I was younger, and the two Ive bred recently, were both yellow based genes, Black Yellow/ Yellow Black/ Mel Yellow(I cant spell the word so I have to call them black yellow) and a honey, So ive only ever had yellow babies from him, But I want to start experimenting, seeing what I can get, etc but i can't ever find the information I'm looking for
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: What colours can you get with a yellow male?

The book Hamsterlopaedia has a good basic hamster genetics section in it It was written in 2002 so there are some things that are a tad out of date, but the genetics and colours section is still pretty good.

The Midland Hamster Club also has a section on genetics on their website here.

I'd also suggest popping along to a hamster show and chatting with some of the breeders there There's not one that's really close to Brighton unfortunately, but there is one in Andover in June and one near Reading in September.
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Old 04-25-2016, 09:12 AM   #7
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Default Re: What colours can you get with a yellow male?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie&Monty View Post
Thank you for your help, this was very helpful and I didnt at all mean you would get a certain colour, I meant it in as thats what most people say youre most likely to get, I understand its still a lucky dip. I dont own my sable anymore, this was when I was younger, and the two Ive bred recently, were both yellow based genes, Black Yellow/ Yellow Black/ Mel Yellow(I cant spell the word so I have to call them black yellow) and a honey, So ive only ever had yellow babies from him, But I want to start experimenting, seeing what I can get, etc but i can't ever find the information I'm looking for
Do you live in the UK?

If so, I'm hoping you get your hamsters from breeders - it really helps know what you'll expect in the litter. You should get a pedigree certificate with your hamsters, which will help see what your hamster could be carrying, for example if their great great grandparent was cream, then your hamster could carry cream too. I think Honey is Cinnamon+Yellow? (I'm not very knowledgable on yellow based colours). I'd give a go at trying to figure out the colours you could get but I don't want to give you wrong information so I'd wait until Nancy or someone else can help
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:11 PM   #8
Ellie&Monty
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Default Re: What colours can you get with a yellow male?

Thank you, and yes thats the only place I can find information on yellows in, but Ive misplaced it somewhere, in the house haha! But thank you, and yes I plan on going to some shows and get some better lines, and talk about it etc, however, all shows are very far away also I work weekends and dont have any transport Im hoping I could go to London Pet Show and I think Ive seen another show in london, that I'd love to go to!
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: What colours can you get with a yellow male?

Quote:
Im hoping I could go to London Pet Show
London Pet Show is a purely educational event for the SHC - there are no hamsters for sale and no show as such.
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