ST's Hamstery D-16 Litter

[Golden_Syrian_Hammmies]

Awh Hani is a lovely colour now I know what rust looks like. Thanks Nancy!

[BluerayDarkes]

All that loss must have been very hard for you, I'm glad the little ones who are still with you are doing well.

[Kissa]

I just read the sad bits, really sorry to hear about some of the pups not making it! Glad that the survivors are doing well though, and TT is so cute!

Originally Posted by Golden_Syrian_Hammmies

What does a rust coloured hamster looks like? I am currently making my self a folder gathering info on genetics, colours and lots of hamster info in relation to breeding as i find it really interesting and want to learn more.

Don't want to hijack the thread too much, but if you want another example (Hani is gorgeous by the way Nancy!) this is my LH rust boy -- he's not the best LH as he's getting on a bit, and his fur is a bit wavy because he carries rex

P1000739.jpg

[flowerfairy]

Aww Kissa, he is gorgeous.

[Golden_Syrian_Hammmies]

Originally Posted by Kissa

I just read the sad bits, really sorry to hear about some of the pups not making it! Glad that the survivors are doing well though, and TT is so cute!



Don't want to hijack the thread too much, but if you want another example (Hani is gorgeous by the way Nancy!) this is my LH rust boy -- he's not the best LH as he's getting on a bit, and his fur is a bit wavy because he carries rex

Attachment 36948

Yes I agree he is very cute thanks for another example kissa. it's amazing how they both carry rust but are very different too. Now I am going to apologize too for hijacking your thread Nancy sorry!

[Nancy's Hamsters]

It's OK and in my opinion any questions which educates are not hi-jacking. More sad news though which has made both me and Erin R reconsider our Rust program, as after posting Hani I found her dead in the nest of and apparent Heart attack. So Erin and I have concluded that a genetic heart issue is in the lines that trace back to my only Chocolate male from the original 10 Chocolates "Abraham".

Looking back on records Abraham himself died suddenly with no evidence of any illness. Erin had Theo who was Lavi's full brother who was just barely 6 months old when she found him dead in the nest but at that time Erin was dealing with some Virus which was picked up somewhere and came in her hamstery so we never thought about his death being due to anything else.

Lavi is doing fine which is very weird, and Erin has 1 Rust Tort homo Polywhite girl and I have one Black Tort female who both seem unaffected at this time, and are Lavi daughters. We have agreed to hold back from breeding these two girls until they reach 7 months as this heart defect seems to bring death by age 4-6 months. Lavi will be 1 year old the 30th of this month so obviously he is a carrier but this defect seems dominant. However it may be recessive and coming from the Chocolate lines as all that have suddenly passed away were also from Chocolate dams. Lavi, or Theo offspring with a Non rust line pedigree are all doing well.

This really puts the screws tight for me or Erin to do any major goal reaching this year as the only females I have here NOT from the Lavi line is Shamika(she had one successful litter but is 13 months old), Ahave(Dam of the C-16 litter), and Kadisha(Ahave's full litter sister). Both Shamika, and Kadisha have been bred to my two new males(also unrelated to the Lavi line). Their owner however does not keep any records of any detail so she THINKS they carry rust(Daniel I know for sure does as he is a Pale eared Yellow AKA Black Eyed Honey)

I want to Thank God for revealing this major health problem before Erin or I bred the Lavi line Hamsters thus continuing this horrible heart defect. Also from preventing me from doing a repeat breeding of the pair which produced this sickly litter. RIP my beautiful Hani you were a special girl and The Bridge needed you so you went.

I firmly believe the D-16 litter has nothing to do with this heart defect issue but a lack of proper digestive enzymes as the moment I started giving enzyme filled mash to the pups all are doing very very well.

[Golden_Syrian_Hammmies]

Awww Nancy im very sorry to hear this Its a blessing that you now know or suspect what the problem is and can prevent it from happening again. Glad that the remaining hamsters and pups are doing wel and pray they continue to do so.

[Kissa]

Oh that is a terrible shame I am really sorry to hear about this, RIP beautiful babies.

(Plus rust is a beautiful colour and it really does put a massive damper on your rust breeding plans!)

[Piebald]

So sorry to hear Nancy. RIP little one.
Do you think it possible that rust carries some defects itself- like deafness in white cats or torts being female- and that may go some way to the rarity of them?

[Nancy's Hamsters]

Originally Posted by Piebald

So sorry to hear Nancy. RIP little one.
Do you think it possible that rust carries some defects itself- like deafness in white cats or torts being female- and that may go some way to the rarity of them?

No it has no connection to the Rust gene Many of my Chocolate line can be verbally traced back to some imports which came out of a hamstery which had this heart defect. Only after a bit of time and generations was documented in the country of origin was this defect made known to breeders who had hamsters from this defective line. Sadly this defect was kept quite about for far to long as some people like to blow things out of proportions, and the hamstery had fear of revenge or enough bad mouthing to shut them down permanently. (Some times people can be very cruel.) It wasn't long for Erin and I to find the longevity of the Original Chocolate hamsters was not that good all but three died before seeing their 1st Birthday, but we just figured it was natural deaths because we had no actual birth dates on any of the Chocolates(nor any known health issues either).

It also seems the defect is coming directly from the adult male I had named Abraham. It may now prove a blessing that the only litter he got to produce was the D-15 litter. The D-15 litter was out of a Beautiful Yellow female from Strong Brew Hamstery and her sire just was used to produce their next litter so I know good health and longevity in behind the Dam. The bad part is Lavi was my only rust carrier male for some time, and then his two Chocolate sons from the L-15 litter. Erin's only Rust carrier male that wasn't Cream was Lavi's full brother Theo who had and early death, but we have no way to know if it was Virus caused or Heart defect caused, because at the time of his death Erin had a wicked Virus go through her Hamstery which killed far to many hamsters many of which were old aged hamsters and Chocolates from the original 10, or Their offspring. So far Theo's offspring have not had any signs of the defect which has claimed all but two pups from a 7 pup litter. In fact Ahave the dam of my C-16 litter is a Theo daughter out of one of her two remaining Chocolates from the original 10. ALL my current Rust carriers here are Theo daughters, except for my Black Tort girl who is sired by Strong Brew Hamstery's Amaretto and out of Swiss Miss (who lost her battle with the Virus) Shamika celebrated her 1 year Birthday in March and still would come in heat and though I seldom breed a year old hamster she was bred last Saturday to my new male Benjamin. Two carriers are out of Maggie and 1 is out of a complete outcross non Rust Umbrous Golden Tort from My Non Rust Yellow lines. Ahave's Dam Maggie was unrelated to Abraham (Thank The Lord above). In fact none of the original 10 were closely related to Abraham.

The C-16 litter is doing very well and 4 of them went to their new homes today along with the Female from my B-16 litter, and the bigger of the two smaller Black Tort Poly white Band Dominant Spot girls from the D-16 litter. I am 100% positive you will hear and see more of all of these pups throughout their life time on HC.

Also The two Chocolates Mama2six has are unrelated to Abraham in any way, but are 1/2 siblings to The L-15 litter via their Dam Qalila who is still going strong at 1 year and 5 months as of the 28th of this month. Their Chocolate sire was Hershel who was Maggie's litter Brother. Hershel sadly lost his battle with that Virus or I am positive he would still be with us today.

Maggie is also still going strong at 1 year and 3 months as of the 30th of this month. Qalila and Maggie are most likely 1/2 sisters having the same Dam but different sires. So now we start all over using Maggie and Qalila offspring bred to non Rust mates and re-establish the Rust/Chocolate lines minus any Abraham blood, or being VERY selective using pups who have Abraham in their pedigree making absolutely sure we never use a mate with Abraham bloodlines in them, and wait to breed until they see their 7 month Birthday to assure they are not affected with the defect and they will still be bred only to non Abraham bloodline mates.

Also of interest is any and all pups sired By Lavi but with a rust free mate have all been thriving as The problem with this D-16 litter was NOT heart related it was a Dam who lacked enough extra gut flora to pass on to the Pups and the pups that passed couldn't digest the solid food so couldn't gain proper nutrition to aid them in growing and digesting any food but Mom's milk.