Silver gray genetics

[Hekomi]

Originally Posted by vidasmile

I wanted to ask if the hams in a picture do carry cream (aa Ee Toto)?

Yes. The lightest one... aaEeTotoSgsg? Is one of the parents Sg?

[vidasmile]

Originally Posted by Hekomi

Yes. The lightest one... aaEeTotoSgsg? Is one of the parents Sg?

I found a pic in the internet. I dont think they have Sg. Sorry for asking question about torts in Sg topic.

I am still confused about seeing torts with "simple" yellow (as in foto) and melanistic yellow.
Do I understand correctly:
aa Toto Baba are black + melanistic yellow (yellow with dark ticking) + white hamsters;
aa Ee Toto Baba are black + melanistic yellow is paled by cream (yellow without ticking as in foto) + white?

[Nancy's Hamsters]

Originally Posted by vidasmile

I am still confused about seeing torts with "simple" yellow (as in toto) and melanistic yellow.
Do I understand correctly:
aa Toto Baba are black + melanistic yellow (yellow with dark ticking) + white hamsters;
aa Ee Toto Baba are black + melanistic yellow is paled by cream (yellow without ticking as in foto) + white?

Vidasmile the easiest way to tell a Yellow from a Melanistic Yellow is this:
Yellow(ToY for Male, and toto for Female) Is an Agouti patterned Hamster. Agouti is where the cheek area has a Cheek Flash and a Crescent like what you see on a Golden Hamster, and the belly is Ivory Yellow. This is because a Yellow Hamster is a Golden Hamster who also has the Yellow Gene on it's X sex gene.

A Melanistic Yellow hamster is a Yellow hamster who also has two genes for Black so is aaToY for males, and aatoto for females. Black is a self color meaning there are no cheek markings and the whole hamsters coat is the same all over including it's belly.

The Cream gene if carried will dilute the Yellow coloring causing the Yellow hamster to be a very faded cream like Yellow and cause the normally Black ticking to also fade to an orange Brown. You will still be able to see the agouti markings but not as easily as if the Yellow was EE.

With a Melanistic Hamster who carries the Cream Gene(Ee) the deep shade of Yellow with Black Ticking is turned into a Cream like Yellow and as a youngster no ticking will be seen, but as and adult you will see Orange brown like ticking.
Ezekiel is such a Hamster. In his adult photo you can just make out his orange brown ticking.

IF the yellow hamster gains two genes of Cream(ee) the Cream gene will Mask or cover over the Yellow gene as well as any black fur and you end up with a Yellow hamster who looks like a BEC This includes any Black Tort Hamsters as well.

Another gene which will alter the Black Torts Tort patches is the Dark Eared White gene. Carrying the DEW gene will turn the Mel Yellow patches on a Black tort to almost and off white.
This is Joni whose Dam was a sassy DEW and sire was a Ee Mel. Yellow
Joni-8 weeks old-b.JPG

Here are some others that should give you and idea on what occurs when a Cream gene is Carried on both Melanistic Yellow Males, and Black Tort females

This is Poohbear who was my first ever Yellow Gene hamster. Poohbear was an Ee Melanistic Yellow Hamster. He was Satin which does darken the coat coloring quite a lot.
Poohbear indoors-a.JPG

This is Keiko who was an EE Grandson of Poohbear
Keiko-11-20-10-a.JPG

Naavah is a very good example of and Ee Black Tort
Naavah 5-16-15-a.JPG

and this last photo will show you that another gene added to an Ee Black Tort Band can really trick you into thinking it is Cream free but Evia was very much Ee as her sire was a BEC carrying Black, her Dam was an ee Melanistic Yellow Umbrous Banded Roan. I had no idea her dam was Yellow until Evia, an Umbrous Ee Black Tort Roan Band sister, and an Ee Melanistic Yellow band brother were born. Evia is an Umbrous Ee Black Tort Band. Note how her Ee Yellow patches turned into a Sable Yellow color.
Evia 1-21-15-c.JPG

[vidasmile]

Thank you everybody for the answers! I will copy this info to a file, because it is interesting and important to me.

But I will try to ask one more question which is interesting for me. I am sorry English is not my mother language so I am not very clear from my first question.

I am curious of the color of yellow in black tort in particular situation:
Lets assume I have a black banded dam (aa Baba) and a not mellanistic yellow sire who just carries black - like you said with the Agouti markings (Aa ToY). And that no one of them carries any other genes like cinamon, cream, rust etc. (they both are PP EE BB)

So I can get a black tort (aa Toto Baba) with 3 colors in it:
1. black (aa)
2. white (because of Baba)
3. yellow - HERE IS MY QUESTION - Can I get simple yellow not melanistic one as a third color in this situation, or a+a will automatically make the yellow color to mellanistic one with very black top coat on the yellow?

Does "Black tort" by itself mean, that the yellow patches in it must be melanistic yellow, or may they be just yellow?