Silver gray genetics

[WinnieTheHam]

Originally Posted by vidasmile

Thanks Winnie very much!

No problem, hope it helped

Originally Posted by Hekomi

Heeeeyyy Almandine and Raggie! Hi girlies Almandine had nicer agouti makrings (especially on her head) when she left ^___^

Aww, were they from one of your litters?! I found the image on google!

[Hekomi]

Originally Posted by WinnieTheHam

Aww, were they from one of your litters?! I found the image on google!

Yeah, my first. You can see Arya's bum on the left!

[Nancy's Hamsters]

May I point out that pup used for showing a Ghost Yellow is NOT a Ghost yellow but a Cream Carrying Yellowblack? Ghost Yellow is a Hamster who has two cream genes and two Yellow genes and there is not one single fur shaft of Black on it. It looks like a BEC in every way and as and adult still looks Black eyed cream but a much richer apricot cream.

Here is an ee Yellowblack pup he even has a Black Mosaic spot which most often shows up on cream based colors, and on non cream colors the only ones born here had a cream parent and was on a Cinnamon Banded Dominant spot Roan and was from and accidental breeding of a Mink Band who had a sable roan sibling, and a Black Dominant Spot who was also Wh found when 4 pups were Eyeless white.

Dubbed Mole dee His sire was and Ee Yellow black, and his Dam was an Ee Black tort. Thus making him impossible to be a BEC.
Mole Dee-a.JPG

What color do you see with this pup? This pup was 1 of 10 pups with 3 being Black and the rest BEC.(Hekomi you have to keep quiet as you know this pup personally sorta
Here is his Mother
Divsha 9-10-13-c.JPG
This is the pup at 5 weeks old
Ezikiel.JPG
Him as an almost 1 year old
Eziekel- 12-15-13-b.JPG

and him in a pup and Mom pile at 21 days old


I'll wait a bit for some answers on this pups and his Mom's coloring then will show you some of his offspring in another post.

[Hekomi]

I think we agreed Almandine was AaEeToTo? I didn't think she was yellow black/melanistic yellow, but instead yellow with a cream gene.

Hehehe Hi Ezekiel

[Nancy's Hamsters]

Originally Posted by Hekomi

I think we agreed Almandine was AaEeToTo? I didn't think she was yellow black/melanistic yellow, but instead yellow with a cream gene.

Hehehe Hi Ezekiel

I believe your right However the fact remains she only had one cream gene where a true ghost yellow has two.

I'm wondering if a Mod can sorta move the Ghost yellow post to it's own thread as the OP was asking about Silver gray and not ghost yellow. I think the OP of the Silver black Pearl pups would gain more by doing so. AND we all won't be bordering breaking Forum rules as well by taking a Thread off topic

[WinnieTheHam]

You learn something new every day, Sorry for the incorrect photo. I thought any cream/yellow combo was classed as a ghost yellow as cream somewhat drowns out the colour no matter what.

Nancy, the cream show hamsters here in the UK are just as dark, if not darker than the first pup you posted!

[souffle]

Originally Posted by Nancy's Hamsters

Ghost Yellow is a Hamster who has two cream genes and two Yellow genes

Male ghost yellows do not have two Yellow genes as it is sex linked and they only have one X carrying the yellow gene.

From the Midland Website :
There are at the moment no recognised Yellow derived or Tortoiseshell patterned animals resulting from combining Yellow with Cream, or Cream and Umbrous, (Sable). It is known, however, that some Cream and Sable animals ARE, in fact, genetically Yellow or Tortoiseshell, since, when they are "outcrossed" to Goldens, Yellows and Tortoiseshells result. (The resulting Yellows, invariably very pale, are sometimes referred to as "Ghost Yellows"). A close watch should be kept when breeding Self coloured animals, (such as Creams and Sables), to Agouti varieties, (such as Goldens), since the appearence of young with the Yellow gene at such times is often the only indication that there is "invisible" Yellow in the Self animals.

[Nancy's Hamsters]

Originally Posted by souffle

Male ghost yellows do not have two Yellow genes as it is sex linked and they only have one X carrying the yellow gene.

From the Midland Website :
There are at the moment no recognised Yellow derived or Tortoiseshell patterned animals resulting from combining Yellow with Cream, or Cream and Umbrous, (Sable). It is known, however, that some Cream and Sable animals ARE, in fact, genetically Yellow or Tortoiseshell, since, when they are "outcrossed" to Goldens, Yellows and Tortoiseshells result. (The resulting Yellows, invariably very pale, are sometimes referred to as "Ghost Yellows"). A close watch should be kept when breeding Self coloured animals, (such as Creams and Sables), to Agouti varieties, (such as Goldens), since the appearence of young with the Yellow gene at such times is often the only indication that there is "invisible" Yellow in the Self animals.

Whoops should have said Ghost yellow females have 2 genes of cream and Yellow, and males have two cream and one Yellow Thanks for catching my oopsie daisy Souffle.
I have heard rumor that some are breeding a Yellow line with Cream deliberately and a show line without any cream and crossing the two lines to improve the quality of Yellows is there any truth to this or is it someone tooting off steam cause they can't produce a show quality Yellow/Tort hamster? As much as I have seen and read I find it very hard to believe the show breeders are doing this on purpose.

[WinnieTheHam]

Cream wouldn't improve yellow, even with one cream gene the yellow looks much paler and agouti markings hardly visible. So I don't see why show breeders would be doing that.

[WinnieTheHam]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but from reading that text it says that Ee is also called ghost yellow. As it gives the example of breeding a genetically yellow cream to a golden, and the resulting yellow pups being ghost yellow - ''some Cream and Sable animals ARE, in fact, genetically Yellow or Tortoiseshell, since, when they are "outcrossed" to Goldens, Yellows and Tortoiseshells result. (The resulting Yellows, invariably very pale, are sometimes referred to as "Ghost Yellows").'' The offspring wouldn't be ee unless the Golden parent carried cream, so lets say it's a pure Golden, the offspring would carry for cream and still would be ghost yellows..?