Eva x Alaster (SEVENTEEN!)

[Hekomi]

While I had a hard time choosing my keeper from Arya's litter, I got many different opinions. I knew who had slightly better type (marginally) but I was still torn. I spoke with Nancy, Bill from Brookside, and Aly from Zika. The last person who I spoke to was Janice from Holmden Hills and she gave me some great advice I've kept with me.

Type, yes, you want to work on and improve, but what is harder to improve than type is temperament. Natural, untamed temperament. When I showed her the pictures and told her that "Star Tort" was friendlier and very confident in hand, compared to "Stripe Tort" who was quite a bit more standoffish, she said to go with the better tempered hamster.

I think that might help you with this.

I personally like the solid Stripe girl and Miss Friendly. I think I like Stripe's head better personally but the images are not that stellar for that specific angle. I personally feel Miss Friendly looks Ee but that's based off my first litter, Soska, who was EE black tort. I have only had one other since then (she was very brindled however) and an EE golden tort.



She is the top pup for comparison. My 2cents. Hope it helps.

[Mama2six]

Miss Friendly is long(ish) and narrow in the face - not as much as Peanut Butter.

Eva was a new addition. Her face is not perfect, but the babies' faces are mostly worse than hers. I do not have her ancestry, because she came from a pet store. She was calm and friendly from day one.

Yes, Pepito has some lovely hams in his ancestry.

Amelia, is also longer in the face.

Peanut Butter's face is not very good. The pictures probably just don't show it well.

I actually have 2 non satin males I can breed, because I forgot about Pepito! There is also a new guy, Ronny, who may be black, or maybe he is satin black, but I am going to find out with his first litter. So I am thinking of skipping the male keeper, and maybe just keeping the best type/temperament combined (the better, very calm Stripe-Face) and Miss Friendly, or maybe just Miss Friendly. (Very few hamsters are so naturally unafraid and so serious about always coming out to play!) I wish there were a "perfect" female here, but there is not. With improvement as my goal, Miss Friendly improves temperament and has desirable colors, and Stripe-Face (who will get a better name now) improves body type with a very good personality.

If I just keep Miss Friendly, I will be looking in the next litter for a female of better type than any of these were... The next litter has a mom with great hamsters on both sides. She is not very big, so I am not 100% sure babies are even coming. (Due tomorrow.)

[Mama2six]

Never mind - she is rounder today.

[Mama2six]

Thank you, Hekomi, for getting another opinion for me!

Nancy, I took new pictures of both Alaster and Amelia (Alaster's mom, this litter grand-mom). Alaster has darkened some from what he was when he was young. This was the picture you saw in the other thread. I don't think he was quite 2 months old here.
Alaster-1.jpg

And here he is today:
Alaster3.jpg

I suspect you will still say he is carrying cream, but I thought we should compare apples to apples here.

Here is Amelia today:
Amelia2.jpgAmelia3.jpg

Do you still say she does not appear to carry cream? I have a male dove who also does not carry cream, but both he and Amelia are banded, with no pedigrees, so I don't feel I can breed them. Amelia should be able to have one more litter, but she did not have babies when I bred her last month. I am breeding her with Esmer, a very dark satin black with a good face, now that I am sure she is not satin. Esmer is very dark, so I don't think he carries cream at all, I just have not verified it. Hopefully the litter this month "takes", and I will get some non-cream carrying pups!

[Mama2six]

And, finally, while I am going picture-crazy, here is Eva, "after babies". I'm not sure what she thinks about them all being gone, but she is glad to have her wheel back.

eva 4wk 1d after babies were born.jpg

She is an excellent mother... although I hope that next time, she doesn't have quite so many, for her sake! I am sure that was very draining to take care of them all, especially for the first two weeks.

Net time I think it will be Eva x Brown Baby (we did not mean to name him that, but it, unfortunately, stuck!) or Eva x Wolfie.

Any suggestions as to which has a better type?

Brown Baby (he carries cream, cinnamon, and black):
Brown Baby.jpg

Wolfie (also carries cream, cinnamon, and black):
Wolfie.jpg

I could also use Esmer, the same male I am trying to breed Amelia to, who I suspect does not carry cream, but I don't think his head is quite as good as Brown Baby and Wolife. These two are my best males, as far as head-shape goes, and both are quite large. They are both getting older, so I'd like to breed them a few more times to carry on these good genes.

[Nancy's Hamsters]

For type Wolfe is better by the head that is. Try to get a side shot of each instead of face shots as the head is only a part of the whole hamster.

Also you need to take in consideration the carried colors behind both males, as well as their temperament and size too. Wolfe being Sg will produce silver black (dingy Black) IF he also carries Black and will lighten up the Yellow to almost white on Black torts carrying cream.

Wolfe also has the better coat quality with Brown Baby being a bit thin furred which is a common fault in pet store origin hamsters in the USA. Hard to see if BB is satin or not in that photo too.

So I would suggest you sit down and make a list of what exactly you hope to achieve with a mating from each male to Eva. Then set up a chart to see what possible colors you can get using each male. Since you used a SH mate this current litter you can't know if Eva is LL or Ll so this next mating would show which she is coat wise.

Of course if the goal is to produce a non satin you may consider a outcross breeder male who is not a Cream carrier and not satin. Since Eva will need at least 3 months to recover you have a good amount of time to find a Pedigreed Male who will compliment your current breeders and not have satin.

More food for thought for you.

BTW yes I still feel Amelia is EE and yes Alaster is Ee LOL here's an EE YB Satin for you to use to compare
Echo-3 month old Satin YB Triopogglebear Male-e.JPG

Here is a VERY good picture of and EE YB Band pup(one standing on the ground) and an Ee YB Band pup(one trying to climb out) at 4 weeks old.
P1010016.jpg

Here is a 3 week old EE Black Tort Band
Tres-Black Tort Band girl-age 21 days-g.JPG

Compared to a 25 day old Ee Black Tort Band
Triopogglebears-25 days- Black Tort and White LH Female-d.JPG

I hope this can help you learn to detect the e gene on your YB and Black Torts.

[Mama2six]

Well, somewhere I typed that they both carry cream, cinnamon, and black, but I see it is not there!

Anyway, my goal would be best type for the babies, since Eva was needed to have more unrelated hamsters to choose from in pairing up hamsters. Both boys are big, Wolfie is a little bigger. Both boys are friendly. Brown Baby escaped and hid out in my closet wall for 6 weeks, and was as tame and gentle as ever when we finally figured out where he was and caught him. He has probably proven himself to be the friendlier one.