Blue colored hamster?

[Hekomi]

Originally Posted by WinnieTheHam

I'm also interested in this, where has the gene come from? it's not listed on the MHC. I'm guessing it's recessive, i'm pretty interested in focusing on dilute in my future breeding. It's lovely!

What do you mean "come from"? As in discovered? It's on the "d" allele so "dd" gives you dilute. It's recessive as you guessed. It's not been standardized but I know a few breeders in the UK are working with it so hopefully soon! I do believe umbrous is mixed into it in most cases, so it might be taking harder to get it out. I'm not totally sure.

[WinnieTheHam]

Originally Posted by Hekomi

What do you mean "come from"? As in discovered? It's on the "d" allele so "dd" gives you dilute. It's recessive as you guessed. It's not been standardized but I know a few breeders in the UK are working with it so hopefully soon! I do believe umbrous is mixed into it in most cases, so it might be taking harder to get it out. I'm not totally sure.

Yes, i mean discovered, like what had been used to create it Thank you for the info! I'd seen some Blue hamsters a while ago and was a bit confused, because i'd never come across them before. The dilute hamsters are really gorgeous

[Hekomi]

Originally Posted by WinnieTheHam

Yes, i mean discovered, like what had been used to create it Thank you for the info! I'd seen some Blue hamsters a while ago and was a bit confused, because i'd never come across them before. The dilute hamsters are really gorgeous

Hm, I don't know. This is something I should ask Bill about, or Janice. Sam or Aly might actually know?

A lot of the times, animals in pet stores are seen with strange colours and patterns. There is a new possible gene about, Europe is calling it Russian Blue. There is some skepticism about it, and I am not sure where I stand. It gives a bit of a mottled sort of merle look even, with patches of more concentrated patterns. They believe it is allelic to cinnamon (p) and causes pink eyes when young (I think I could be wrong). I believe it is in the UK now with Chris so hopefully we'll have more answers soon! There are many genes mixed into these so hard to tell.

Extreme dilute is similar, in that it was seen in a pet store, then animals who displayed the same were collected and bred. I believe this was East Coast US. Here is an article on that from River Road: The River Road Hamstery

[Snowz]

It looks more grey than blue? or is it meant to be half half?

[WinnieTheHam]

Originally Posted by Snowz

It looks more grey than blue? or is it meant to be half half?

Most animals that are grey are called blue, like the Russian Blue cat

[Sam Zika]

If I remember correctly from what Bill at Brookside Hamstery told me, the Dilute mutation is thought to have originated in commercial pet suppliers in the Czech Republic (which is the largest pet supplying country in Europe). It was discovered by the breeding community something like 5-10 years ago. Brookside has it and has created several Dilute combination colors (I previously linked a photo album). I think Janice at Holmden Hill Haven has it too. I don't think it's present in commercial stock in North America.

Dilute is interesting because its effect is simple, and it's been present in domesticated dogs, cats, rats, mice, and Campbells dwarf hamsters for a long time, so it's relatively easy to predict its behavior in combination with other colors. (In Campbell's it's called Opal instead of Dilute but the combination aadd is called Blue, like in Syrians and other animals.)

[Sam Zika]

Originally Posted by Hekomi

I do believe umbrous is mixed into it in most cases, so it might be taking harder to get it out. I'm not totally sure.

I've heard something to the effect that breeders in the UK haven't yet successfully separated Dilute from Umbrous. It must still be pretty new there. But I know Brookside in the US has pure Blues. They also have some Dilute + Umbrous combinations that look pretty cool. (ddeeU_) is Blue Sable or Dilute Sable. (bbddeeU_) is Lavender Sable or Dilute Caramel, as Brookside calls them.

What I'm not sure of is how Umbrous affects Blue. I've seen pictures of Blues that appear to have dark tips on their fur. If they were actually Blue Umbrous, that would explain that.

[Vectis Hamstery]

It will take time to establish blue in the UK as not many exhibitor/breeders have the space to quarantine syrians from Europe for the 9 months needed for papova and the other implications that has for breeding/transporting the hamsters as they can't be near any other Syrians during that time. This has been the main rate-limiting step so far. My friend has some blues as do a few other people so they're getting more widely known. As it's not a recognised mutation yet the offspring can't be exhibited or sold at NHC-affiliated club shows so it's a real commitment to starting breeding them. As mentioned above the blues so far seem to have a lot of other colours mixed in there (umbrous, silver grey) so I suspect it will take some time to build up the required information on the blue/dilute gene alone to satisfy the standards committee.

[Hekomi]

Originally Posted by Sam Zika

I've heard something to the effect that breeders in the UK haven't yet successfully separated Dilute from Umbrous. It must still be pretty new there. But I know Brookside in the US has pure Blues. They also have some Dilute + Umbrous combinations that look pretty cool. (ddeeU_) is Blue Sable or Dilute Sable. (bbddeeU_) is Lavender Sable or Dilute Caramel, as Brookside calls them.

What I'm not sure of is how Umbrous affects Blue. I've seen pictures of Blues that appear to have dark tips on their fur. If they were actually Blue Umbrous, that would explain that.

Yeah, Bill has separated them. It's still pretty new around here too. Janice I believe does have it - the last time we chatted she said she still has most genes. I'm really fond of Lavender and Opal too, I chatted with Bill about how they're named, apparently they use the mouse terms which is fantastic as there is a lot of correlation.

I've watched a few blues and blue umbrouses from... Germany? I think and you can totally tell when they have umbrous. Either way they're gorgeous.

Originally Posted by Vectis Hamstery

It will take time to establish blue in the UK as not many exhibitor/breeders have the space to quarantine syrians from Europe for the 9 months needed for papova and the other implications that has for breeding/transporting the hamsters as they can't be near any other Syrians during that time. This has been the main rate-limiting step so far. My friend has some blues as do a few other people so they're getting more widely known. As it's not a recognised mutation yet the offspring can't be exhibited or sold at NHC-affiliated club shows so it's a real commitment to starting breeding them. As mentioned above the blues so far seem to have a lot of other colours mixed in there (umbrous, silver grey) so I suspect it will take some time to build up the required information on the blue/dilute gene alone to satisfy the standards committee.

Nine?! Months?! Wow! I can totally understand why - is the papova virus much more common in Europe? I know that over here it is present but I think much less present than 5-10 years ago. I wonder if that correlates to the amount of imports done since then. I had the opportunity to import from Germany, but saw no real benefit to me doing so (we thought they had pure Campbells but they were not so there was no point). I'm glad we didn't end up doing so!

So only recognized mutations can be sold on the sales table? Interesting!

[souffle]

It's not a standard colour nor even recognised yet by the National Hamster Council in the UK winnietheham so you won't find it on the MHC site. It has really only recently come over here from the continent and a few people are trying to work with it so you may see it show up soon. It still needs proven for health and lifespan etc so needs careful breeding though there are a few places selling blues for rather extortionate prices!