Russian hamsters behaviour change and biting

[gremlin]

Hi everyone,

I'm brand new to the forum.

I got two new campbells russian dwarfs (havn't got names for them yet) and im complete newbie with hamsters but have had many other animals in the past and seem to have a nack of picking the insane ones.

Anyway currently ive got one rabbit, and three fish besides the hamsters (would like to know if you think the sent of the rabbit would make any difference i do wash my hands throughly anyway between them).

I brought them back left them to settle, then put my hand in and they both would climb into my hand so i would pick them up and stroke them for alittle while and they seemed really happy.

The first ones behavour was very explorative running up my arms and the second one would sit in my hand and be stroked, both would like to be stroked.

After playing with them i would leave my hand in for a sec and they would nip me (very lightly) to pick them back up not getting of my hand untill i did

Then later i put my hand near there house and the second one would bite me not overally hard so i just left him alone thinking he was abit territorial about his house.

Anyway the main point is there seemed to be a change, the second one went into the house first then the first one followed. The second one seems to be more dominant to the point if the second one goes up to the first they siff each other, the first one rolls on to its back in what seems to be fear and starts squeeking ... the second one isnt doing anything or seems not to other than sniffing.

This is when behaviour changed, the second one not so much just really wants to be handled and really friendly, where as the first one seems really frightned.

The first one has bitten me so hard that when i pulled my finger up it was hanging of my finger! Obviously id like for this not to happen.

Im unsure how to proceed with this as its odd and im sorry my post has been so long just trying to explain really need tips with this anything will be greatly appreshated. With my other animals ive really never hand much of an issue re aggression and any problems ive hand ive sorted easily so any help is great.

Thanks g x

[gremlin]

Oh ive decided on names the first is holmes, as in sherlock holmes and the second is Phileas, as in Phileas fog.

Also just to add last night i got woken up by squeeking that went on for quiet abit i checked neither seemed hurt but would really like some ideas.

The tamming seems to be getting on better put them in a tub and put my hand near and they seem much happy with that and when i put them back they both crawled on my hand and ive also been lifting them up slightly and putting them back and repeating the process that seems to be working but any ideas would be great thanks

[souffle]

It is quite normal for them to tussle, box and squeak a lot as they establish dominance in the cage. If blood is drawn though then you need to separate them or if you see one is being bullied and is losing weight and confidence (eg staying in a house all the time) then that too is an indication they need separated. You can tell when the fighting is serious as they get really high pitched and scream. This is different from the tussle squeaking.
What sort of cage are they in? The should not be in a modular cage but need a nice open space with two identical of everything. You are better not to have houses and tubes in if they are squabbling as they can have head ons and fights over these. Scatter feed them and don't have a bowl. Hide food so they kept busy foraging. Always put some of the bedding back so they keep their scent in it as they are bonded by the shared scent. Always handle both together and rub them over each other. Check the sexes are correct as dwarfs are often misexed and pregnant females can get a bit tetchy.
The biting is likely caused by cage agression or cage rage as we call it. It is common in dwarfs and they are defending their home. You should not put a hand in the cage but instead use a tube or ice cream tub or a ball and herd them in to it. Take them well away from the cage and then handle and tame them. Dwarfs can be pretty speedy so sitting in a dry bath and letting them crawl over you is good as they cannot escape from it.
Have a look at the taming tips article on the WIKI.
Hope that helps.

[gremlin]

Thanks alot souffle
They dont seem to be fighting as such more phileas will go on his back and start squeeking and holmes will sniffing. It seems to be happening more but they arnt actually hitting each other.
They are in and please dont eat me a ferplast combi 1 i brought this one as it was one of only two with out huge bars that they could get stuck in and i was fully intending to extend it to a bin cage or another cage.
If you think this is totally unsuitable then please give me ideas as i was told by pets at home this was best. why i listened i dont know.
There is a tube as you can see and they have a house which at the end of the day they both go into at night and sleep reasnably well so do i get rid of these? I have got a bowl but i can get rid of this and scatter feed it seems a good idea and i was thinking of scattering there food as they love to dig.
Also in there ive brought them a a wooden play tunnel and a hamster stick which they both run up and hang of noring at it, they both share and love it both.
Regarding the biting they are tons better let me put my hand in to scoop them up with no problem and crawl over my hand together but saying that i am using the techniques and ive looked at the tamming artical, the tub worked a treat but the bath is far to cold and they started to shiver so ive left that bit.
Any advice on housing or anything would be really greatful
hugs

Combi 1 Dwarf Hamster Cage by Ferplast | Pets at Home

[gremlin]

Oh one other thing i tried to sex them as when i brought my rabbit they told me it was a girl and ended up being a boy and im thinking at least one looks like a girl but im not sure.... what do you suggest get the vet to sex them?

[annie81]

the cage might be a bit small...can you get a slightly bigger cage??

[gremlin]

Yer i was fully prepaired to buy another one if needed but just dont know whats best for them

[souffle]

It really is too small for two hamsters I'm afraid. You could get a rody, duna, Ryden Mill House, but even these are pushing it a little for a pair. Have a look on the cage review section and see which are recommended. We used a Gabber rex for two but these are not easily available. What about the Duna Multy? That is a good size.
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Even a large cage won't guarantee they will stay together though but at least you will have the other cage on hand in case they fight and it would lkely be OK for one.
To sex them have a look at the pics at the top of the section. The most important thing to establish is that bothe look the same then at least you know they wont have babies. It will becaome more apparant if they are male or female as they mature. Just be sure they both have the same space between the two vents for now!

[gremlin]

Right i was just set off to go to bed and the hamsters where fast asleep together in there cage and they burst out massive squeeking and got hold of each other in a ball kicking, biting etc i yelled to try and get them to stop and they wouldnt so i had to physically pull them appart!

They luckly have no harm done appart from maybe some fur missing but ive split them i was thinking putting one in a high sided storage box untill i get something better as soon as the shops open

Do you think im doing the right thing?

[souffle]

Have answered your other thread Gremlin. Yes you have done the right thing. Once can stay in that cage I'd say and get another cage and do not try and put them back together again. The storage box and a bowl of water will be just perfect for now or even permanently.