Territorial behavior with platforms

[Biscotti]

Just would like to say up front that my tanks do not have platforms and I understand that the current prevailing wisdom is no platforms for dwarf ham groups. What I'm curious about is why platform causes territorial behaviours and the specifics, and if it's an issue that can be solved.

For example, if there's only a single access point, then one ham can guard the ladder to prevent the other hams from getting on and off, or in case of a fight, a ham can get trapped. In this case, would multiple access points solve the territorial issue similar to how a large house having multiple entrances can prevent guarding/trapping?

Are there any behavioral differences in partial platform vs full level? For example, I'd imagine that a platform with multiple ladders can be seen as an extension of the original environment by the hams, while a full level can seem like "totally different place" if they have to use a single ladder or a tunnel since the 2 spaces are visually separated.

I'm also wondering if these territorial behavior is caused more so by small cages, so when hams get to the age where bickering begin, it just seems easier to claim one level and block it from others, rather than spread out and share the area. Does anyone have experience with a dwarf group in a large habitat (zz2 or larger) with open platforms?

I'm rambling, but I hope you guys know what I mean, it's something that's been on my mind for quite awhile. Opinions, speculations, personal anecdotes are welcomed.

[kyrilliondaemon]

Er... It depends a lot on the hamster.

We have large cages and still find territorial behaviour can occur - the once we had territorial fights was in a cage about 75cm by 80cm if I remember right. Big cages don't stop it. It wasn't over shelves but I'd be willing to bet that there would've been fights over shelves if we'd given the hams them.

Some pairs or groups can deal with small platforms, the theory there is that they're about the same size as the top of another toy so are no more worth fighting over than the top of a toy. Anything bigger is a risk as it is big enough to be worth fighting to claim it - so probably a bad idea. I'm not sure visuals make much difference to hamsters though, just for the record.
Its not something we've personally tried though - we've not seen the need to risk it when our cages have more than enough space without them.

Multiple access points may solve it... Or they may not.

In all honesty, it all depends on the hams and given that a territorial fight could lead to separation... I'll never see platforms with pairs as a risk worth taking.

[StuCil]

I used to keep three of my girls in a trio. And honestly I kept them in a cage that cant really be said as "large enough for a trio" most of you will probably said that the cage was "too small", I also had platform in it, it was a partial platform and only had one ladder, I even only had two wheels (please don't think of me as a bad ham mum ) BUT, the girls were never fighting over anything, they lived really well together, that's why I wasn't thinking to upgrade the cage...til I upgraded the cage.

I moved them into a much much bigger tank, it still had a platform with one ladder, there were three wheels etc etc. It had only gone well for around 3 days until finally Cil was started being bullied by Jinak. I was really upset about it, Cil was afraid of Jinak that she always avoided her. I ended up separating Jinak from the other girls.

I know people think keeping a trio is hard and prob a bad idea. But it actually works just fine for my hams (I still have another trio that live really well until now). It's 100% my opinion based on my experience, but it was probably the large space that triggered my hams to be territorial, I mean since the space was so large they didn't really see each other that often if you get what I mean, they started to claim their territories, and voila fighting occured. It could be just my silly thought but that's what I think. My trio (that works well until now) live in a space that's considered "just enough". It probably because they learn to share everything and they can see each other almost every second at least that's what I'd like to think of them.

But on top of all that it totally depends on the hams, since Jinak is separated from the group, Cil and Pudding live really well together in that big tank I personally don't think that the platform causes them to be territorial, it really depends on the hams.

Once again that's just my opininion hehe and sorry for the long post!

[Biscotti]

That makes sense. Now that I think about it, hamsters do have poor eyesight so the visual theory is bunk. I do wonder why they might fight over a large platform as oppose to a large corner area, the only difference I can tell is that a platform is raised. I guess hams are weird like that.

[kyrilliondaemon]

They'll fight over corner areas if the corner is different enough to be worth claiming. Our fights were when we made the mistake of giving the group a sand corner - the sand bath was fine, but a sand corner was apparently worth fighting over.

We have also found that size does matter with pairs/groups. You can sometimes go too big - but you can also go too small. Its just finding the right size that makes a big difference.

[Lougarry]

It also depends how settled the group is. I know Poms used platforms in her robo pairs' cages in the past - although not In Peaches and Marmalade's as they were too volatile.

[Erin Loves Dwarf Hamsters]

I think that if a hamster is going to be territorial then it will do it over anything, heck I've kept pairs and groups in cages with levels and never had problems. In fact I've never had issues with any of my pairs yet I have broken so many of the standard 'rules' on keeping pairs together. I've had levels, single wheels (large enough for both to use) I don't scatter feed and I use just one water bottle yet have never had any problems. The only occasion where I had a problem with a group was when adding an elderly female to an pair as she had recently lost her litter mate. It worked fine for 3 months but she didn't get along with the youngest one so she was separated - yes there was a level in this cage and just the one large wheel but neither of those factors contributed to the fights.

I still recommend people start out following the 'rules' of pair keeping but in all honestly if the pair are close and get along well then you can probably risk experimenting with levels after they have been together some time. I think it's more down to the personalities of the hams rather than a fact of ham keeping. Hamsters need to compliment each other in order to get along, certainly if you put two Alpha hams together in a levelled cage you will experience problems

[Biscotti]

Thanks everyone for your experiences, they're really helping me organizing my thoughts.

@krill: You've made a good point in that it is possible to go too big for some hams. I know the wisdom is "you can never go too big" but I've had pairs that were moved between large and smaller habitats, and the difference in their attitude is obvious. Some would quickly claim one end or a corner, but become best buddies again once moved to a smaller tank. Of course, this is not the rule, and depends on the hams' personality as you said.

@Erin: Your post confirms my past experience, as I've had platforms with several of my campbell pairs/groups for years before I learned of the "rule", and rarely had issues. The ones who did fought, fought regardless of platform, so I'm inclined to think it depends more on the hams themselves, rather than the platform that is causing the fights. And I agree with your recommendation for newbies for the same reasons.

[kyrilliondaemon]

Erin - Yeah, you're right. I just parrot the "no levels" rule to the majority because starting with them can go badly wrong.

Biscotti - We found our group got on much better in their second cage despite it being about 2/3 the size of the first. They didn't get territorial in either, but squabbles were more common in the bigger one. In the end they got a third size which was in the middle and that worked well for them until the fall out.

I do think that if hams will fight whether they have causes or not depends though. When Scruff started claiming the sand area it was the only time she ever started fights - after that any fights were usually Dusty starting them. Scruff occasionally squeaked at someone but never took it further without the sand area in the cage. Yeah the squabbles were with Scruff and in the end it was Scruff who got attacked, but then it wasn't Scruff starting them.
Thats just our experience though - and I know keeping Dusty and Scruff together as either part of a group or a pair was a challenging plan from the start.