ZZ2 = unhappy hammy?

[racinghamster]

I totally agree with that sentiment and hamsters will always probably start out life in smaller enclosures so won`t be used to bigger cages. The main question was about the OP`s hamster being a bit unsettled having been put into a larger cage but seems now to be settling well.

The main aim of any forum should be the welfare of the animals in question and that means giving them the biggest and the best, but we won`t know whether biggest is best if we don`t give the hamster the opportunity to try it. Some will love it, some may not. That`s fair comment. The point I was making was, it`s always better to give the hamster the benefit of the doubt, which is what I did almost straight away with both my syrian and my chinese when I took them on last year. It all comes down to how that change is made and how well the larger cage is set up. I take that knowledge from keeping mice in the past, where the `norm` would be to use small, pet shop cages, while most discerning pet mouse owners would skip those and go straight to the larger hamster caging or even rat cages, which is laughed off by breeders who have a different mind-set altogether.

I would love to use Duna`s and Rody`s because they are easier to carry and move and clean out. But If the switch is made to a Gabber Rex or a Zoozone 1, it shouldn`t mean the hamster being anymore stressed than it should be if the owner makes sure that everything in the new cage is exactly as it was in the old cage, substrate, bedding, wheel, toys, even smearing some peed on shavings around the new cage sides to create a familiar scent. If everything is too `new`, it will have the opposite effect sometimes. It all comes down to making the change and going about it the right way. A plan of action, if you like. Not just a new cage, new set up and the hamster will be happy, because sometimes that just doesn`t help with the change over.

Some of the german caging can be a little on the oversized, even I recognise that. But I`m not talking about huge tanks or using furniture from Ikea! I`m just talking about using slightly bigger cages like the Zoozones. They are on the market and I know which I would choose.

[NotsoLittleOlive]

Actually, I'm afraid the improvement was short-lived, probably motivated by porridge. She's actually worse now - running away from me, which is really upsetting.

I'd like to point out that I *did* put all her same toys in and the substrate that had been in her previous cage for 2 weeks...obviously I had to add to or I wouldn't have covered the cage. Equally I had to add to the toys or it would have been really empty (and clearly she wouldn't have appreciated that) but she had used ALL of them during floortime so was familiar with them. I'm not sure how that makes me not "discerning".

I'm making a divide today (would have been earlier but I'm in the middle of exams). If that doesn't seem to make any difference within a couple of days then she's going back to her old cage and she'll be staying there for a long time to make sure she's fully back to herself before I start trying to transition her to a bigger barred cage (I'm thinking the bars may be the key).

And, yes, my next hamster will be starting in a ZZ2, not working up to it, and maybe that will mean it's happy in there - we'll just have to see =)

[TheFeldhamster]

@NotSoLittleOlive: can you put up a picture of your setup so we could give you some hints? I would really love to help you as I can't really believe that this can't be fixed with some changes. Because there are just so many people over here with so many hamsters who don't have that problem. The 100x40 minimum over here has been in place for many years so this is really quite a big dataset of experience. And people regularly rescue hamsters from small cages (eg. 30x40 or 30x50) and put them into 100x40 or bigger. Rescuing is almost a sport on the forums here. There are cases or hamsters which take a bit longer to adapt but it's really rare, esp. with female syrians. Problems with shy hamsters are typically with robos over here - which I personally attribute more to the practice of keeping them single instead of in groups rather than cage size. Because even the shy robos do use their whole cage - just not while the lights are on and a human is near them. But you can see that they took food from all parts of the cage and left footprints in the sand area.

Plus, you already spent the money on the cage anyway, if would be such a shame if that would go to waste.

I would also like to point you to this vid taken in the natural habitat of syrians. There's a short part that was filmed from the hamster perspective and you can see that to them it looks like a jungle! I know it sounds unbelievable, but from the hamster perspective a cage really looks SO different than what it looks like when you look at it "normally". Did you try to look with a make-up mirror? I was really, really amazed how different my own setups looked when I did this.

[NotsoLittleOlive]

Hi Feldhamster. Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore you - I've just had more work to do than there are hours in the day

I've done what I can with pictures (broken camera - using iphone). They're not terribly clear but I could explain things.
It's not how I would probably have it in the long term...I just tried to make as many covered routes in and out of her house as I could.


The grass mat is hiding the top of her bed where her food bowl is so she doesn't have to see the rest of the room.
The pink thing is just a flannel 'cus that area seemed a bit exposed height-wise.

[TheFeldhamster]

Originally Posted by NotsoLittleOlive

I've just had more work to do than there are hours in the day

*gg* I know that feeling - sorry for my answer being late.

The cage looks well done to me, there really are lots of covered places. Does the cage sit in a different place now where there is more bright light? Or nearer to the cat's fav spot (if you have a cat)? This could be an issue, too.

Also, the access from the top might be an issue. When you access the cage, try not to come from directly above but rather stick your hand in downwards as far away from your hamster as possible and then come at her horizontally. Whenever I used my Samla bin as a temp cage I noticed that it's not so easy to come at the hamsters horizontally with my hand and they did not really like me to stick my hand straight down from (more or less) directly above them (experience with 3 different dwarf hamsters). With the Detolf I have now this is not a problem because it is so big that I can sick my hand down far away from the hamsters and then come at them horizontally. But the opening of the Samla was a bit small for that. (My other 3 cages have front access with sliding glass doors.)

And are you sure it's not coincidence with the onset of an illness? Does she look all right when you health check her? Wouldn't want to miss anything there because of missinterpreting a silly coincidence.

Other than that I can't think of anything right now. Personally, I'd give her a bit more time to settle in and try not to change the setup during that time and not give her out of cage time. Maybe another 1-2 weeks or so. Sometimes they take a little bit longer to settle in. For a female syrian it would really seem strange to me that she wouldn't appreciate that cage.

As I said before, people here almost make a sport out of rescuing. TBH to the point of it being almost annoying - if you have a pet shop hamster you are considered sort of a second-class owner which I don't think is good.

Anyway, they regularly rescue (old) hamsters from 30x40, 30x50 or 40x60 wire cages and put them into 100x40 directly if they are a rescue station or even bigger if they want to keep the hamster for themselves. Typically, they can't even re-use any of the bedding, nesting material or toys because it's so dirty, so most of the time the hamster has to go into the new cage without any of it's old things. They give it a week or two and all of these hamsters use every part of the cage. Some don't do it while the lights are on or while a human is near them but I wouldn't expect that from all traumatized rescues (the descriptions of their old housing conditions and of how they were handled in their old "homes" usually make me want to puke). Even of those, most come around after a while. So I would recommend to not give up too easily and first check for other reasons.

[NotsoLittleOlive]

Thanks for your input
The cage is in the same place as it always was (the one place it could physically fit )

My immediate thought was "Oh god she's ill". I have checked *everything* to the point that I've been moitoring her toilet habits, water intake and counting the bits of food I put in the cage so I can see what she's eating and nothing is abnormal. If I could find a single symptom i'd have taken her straight to the vet.

Whenever I approach her I talk first and just put my hands on the bars for a minute so she can smell me before I open the lid - if I move suddenly and startle her she visibly relaxes when I say "Just me, Ol".

I now know she's using the whole cage as today I've spotted where she's been digging and moving chew toys. But she's not using her wheel or asking to come out of her cage. She was never massively taken with her wheel anyway...it got used when I blocked off her favourite chew spots so I'm wondering if it's the case that she's got enough space and is occupied enough that she doesn't use it or want to come out...but then I guess everyone elses hamsters wouldn't beg to come out =S

Does anyone know if hamsters actually miss specific people? Just because she's not seen her favourite climbing frame (one of my housemates) for several weeks - this is the person who she thinks she "owns", regularly scent-marking her. And yesterday, said housemate was in my room talking - Olive obviously heard her voice, got out of bed and went up to her shelf. When I lifted the door up she pulled herself out of the cage, which has been previously unheard of. *rolls eyes*