Can a bar chewer ever go back to barred cages?

**kyrilliondaemon** · 12-11-2011, 11:21 AM

Hi
Our syrian bar chews, she definetly has enough space, definetly has plenty of toys, definetly has plenty of gnawing things, and still chews.
We know it started out as "oi! theres a problem" but now its usually just for the sake of it.

Today we're going to switch her cage over a lot, take most of it off her and make sure the only bars are well out of her reach. What I want to know, is can she go back to her normal cage setup after a few weeks or will she need to stay away from bars permanently to avoid her going back to the habit?

We'd really prefer her to be able to go back to this cage setup eventually, but if she can't we'll need to start planning how best to rearrange cages and make sure she still has plenty of space, and if we've got to do that its best to know now rather than when Scamp returns to her normal cage setup and starts the chewing again.

AJ Hamster · 12-11-2011, 11:30 AM

I'd probably avoid wires altogether. It does really depend how consistently she chews; AJ only chews every two weeks or so, so i let him stay in the wire.
Some owners on here i'm sure will offer you stuff to put on the bars to prevent chewing - I've heard some people recommend lemon juice.

Flamestriker · 12-11-2011, 11:32 AM

Hi Kyrilliondaemon, Squeak chews bars too, and like you she has plenty of toys, space and such. Im in the process of taming her, so she doesnt have ball or play time otside the cage yet but she will. I think hammies will chew whatever they want to.

I am very interested in the replies to your question as I have not got room for another cage but I dont want her to break a tooth or have bar rub either.

Demecat · 12-11-2011, 11:36 AM

it's a bit like asking if a recovering alcoholic can ever drink alcohol again.

Bar chewing is an addiction to the hamster (the repetitive action releases endorphins which are feel good hormones), so just like there a high risk of a recovering alcoholic reverting to old ways, there's a high risk that the hamster will revert to his/her old habit of bar chewing

**kyrilliondaemon** · 12-11-2011, 11:48 AM

AJ - She's proving my point brilliantly as she's just woken up and has been chewing for the past five minutes. She chews for hours a day and its replaced everything in her life other than eating, storing food and outside cage time (which we have to coax her out of the cage for). Its hit rather worrying levels so she's defiently getting taken away from bars completely for a while, its not healthy to do anything else.
We just hope she can go back to this cage setup later.

Flamestriker - Yeah, most chew whenever, and at first we weren't worried with Scamp but its gotten a bit out of hand now so we need to put a stop to it. We can remove bits of her cage, take away 2/3 bins and replace the third with one without bars for now, but we don't want her in that permanently so it'll be good to know if she can ever go back to bars or not.
Fortunately she hasn't ended up injured yet, but when she used to love her wheel and daily playtime its a bit sad seeing her want her life to be the bars, food and sleep.
I doubt Squeak will manage to get this bad though, I think Scamp is a very extreme case.

Edit - Thanks Demecat, I had a bad feeling that'd be the answer but wanted to check and be sure. We'll have to think and seriously consider if its a risk worth taking or not then. Silly hamster... The possible re-arrangement will mean the robos are harder access (but with bigger cages) and Scamp loses about 1500 square cm of space. Plus days of work to swap cages around and make them suitable for their new owners, and a possible re-arrangement of our room if the cages stop fitting as they currently do.
Am sure we'll sort something out, were just being optimistic and hoping that we could avoid needing to go through this hassle to get Scamp back to a better lifestyle.

TheFeldhamster · 12-11-2011, 12:00 PM

Well, how big is "definitely enough space"? If you take a look at the scientific studies on golden hamsters done at the veterinary dept. of the University of Bern then you'll see that they found that stereotypies such as bar chewing only began to subside when syrians were housed in really large cages with really deep bedding - based on their studies they recommend a minimum(!) size of 1 square meter (about 10 square feet) and a minimum bedding depth of 30cm (about 1 foot) for syrians. You can find a summary and links to all those studies HERE.

Most people don't have that much space for a cage or don't have the ability to build something like this so it is highly unlikely that you'll be able to re-introduce that syrian into a barred cage again. Seeing as she's female that behavior is quite normal. Your best bet is to go for a big tank, bin or diy cage with only mesh on top where she can't reach it. Give her lots of bedding so she can dig a real burrow to keep her busy. It will probably still feel small to her - there is no such thing as a too big cage for a female syrian - but at least she won't damage her teeth or get bar rub.

Flamestriker · 12-11-2011, 12:00 PM

I know some on this forum love dunas and such, but I had a hammy who chewed his way out of one, so Im not too keen on them, and I find aquariums too heavy for cleaning.

Kyrilliondaemon, I wish you luck with your deterrants. Let us know how you get on and if Scamp stops

sully · 12-11-2011, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demecat

it's a bit like asking if a recovering alcoholic can ever drink alcohol again.

Bar chewing is an addiction to the hamster (the repetitive action releases endorphins which are feel good hormones), so just like there a high risk of a recovering alcoholic reverting to old ways, there's a high risk that the hamster will revert to his/her old habit of bar chewing

That is very interesting, i thought they were just trying to escape?

**kyrilliondaemon** · 12-11-2011, 12:22 PM

TheFeldHamster - In total shes got roughly 11000 square cm of space at the moment, but it is spread over three floors of a bin cage and a bunch of smaller rotastak bits. The bin cage is the biggest we could manage for her and there wasn't anything bigger we could buy to make it with (plus now we can't fit anything bigger in the room lol). She doesn't touch most of it and happily ignores the bottom level of the bin cage most of the time. (Or did - now she loves to chew there because she's realised its the hardest bit of her cage for us to access, so she can chew for longer before we interrupt her.)
The temp cage will be about 5000 square cm, and the only bars will be well out of her reach.
Oh and she has no interest in burrowing whatsoever, doesn't seem to grasp the concept of it. She has a burrowing chamber and I've even tried to coax her into using it by burying treats e.t.c, trying different substrates and she doesn't care. She'll store food there sometimes but only right on the top. I even buried her favourite food in there once and she dug it out, dragged it off and promptly stopped caring about digging again lol

Flamestriker - We use the mini duna, it works quite well with one each for our individual robos, especially considering how nervous they were when we got them. We need the large door for a start lol, but yeah we do keep an eye out for hamsters chewing out of things.

I'll let everyone know what happens with this, I think for now its definetly move Scamp to a temporary cage setup and keep her away from the bars for a while. We can make a final call about her cage then, and I'll update the thread when we do. It'll either be put her back to normal and hope, or spend days switching things around in cages until we've got everyone in good cages and Scamp in a more permanent bar-free setup.

Edit - And Sully, if Scamp wants out she knows all she has to do is chew in any of the areas where we can reach her. She even has three chewing spots - theres the "I want to be left in peace to chew" spot, the "my water bottle is broken" spot, and the "I want food and/or time out of my cage" spot. If we try and get her out when she's not in the "I want food and/or time out" place she just tries to run away to a different part of her cage.

Demecat · 12-11-2011, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sully

That is very interesting, i thought they were just trying to escape?

It probably started that way, but developed into the habit/addiction.

Zoo animals who are kept in small cages pace as it is the only way they can exercise. However, it soon starts to release endorphins and when they are moved to a different zoo with a purpose built, enrichment heavy enclosure, they still pace because it releases the endorphins that make them feel better.

It can be very distressing to watch and often leads to activists wrongly accusing a great zoo as being stressful to the animal.