Colour dilemma

[i-love-paddy]

Im picking up some hams at Knebworth this weekend. A breeder has given me the following list of available hamsters:



1)Satin rust tort female- i posted about her before-she is now a satin as well

2)Satin honey male

3) L/H yellows-bit too young-have to run them on and havent another hamster of similar age.



I really want the satin rust tort but what can I pair her with? As far as I know a 'normal' rust needs to be paired with a good golden-which should give all goldens carrying rust :oops: then pair a young ham with a rust to get golden and rust. ???Tort's I know are sex linked(yellow gene) but what male would be best? I dont want to overcommit myself.





honey male x cinnie female would give me goldens and cinnie torts but i havent got a cinnie female :( :(



heeelp!!!

[Pendragon]

1)Satin rust tort female- i posted about her before-she is now a satin as well

2)Satin honey male

3) L/H yellows-bit too young-have to run them on and havent another hamster of similar age.



I really want the satin rust tort but what can I pair her with? As far as I know a 'normal' rust needs to be paired with a good golden-which should give all goldens carrying rust :oops: then pair a young ham with a rust to get golden and rust. ???Tort's I know are sex linked(yellow gene) but what male would be best? I dont want to overcommit myself.



I guess it depends on what you would like to breed from them.



If you want to make more Rusts, then yes I guess a Golden. But if it's the Tort you're more interested in, then you can use a black, or a yellow-black male. Or if you can find one, a Chocolate.



Your Honey is going to be more useful for breeding more Torts, if that's what you want, since any female he's put with will produce Torts. It's a shame he's also Satin, or he could have gone with the Rust!



You could breed the Honey boy to a female of any colour, keep a non-satin male and then breed that one to the Rust Tort. Then you should get some Rusts, Honeys and Rust Torts in the litter.



That's the genetic side of it anyway - which may not give the best results for colour show-wise, but might produce the colours you want.



PS: I am hoping to be at Knebworth too, and if you want black tort or yellow-black, I think Sue Carter has some.

[i-love-paddy]

Thanks Sue. i hope you can make it to Knebworth.



Im picking up a silver grey from Sue C to pair up with Queenie. I could get the satin rust and satin honey-pair the honey up,and then breed an offspring with the satin rust like you say. I would love a black-yellow but imalso picking up some PJ dwarves so I might be pushing it if I come back with too many hammies!

[Pendragon]

Thanks Sue. i hope you can make it to Knebworth.

Im picking up a silver grey from Sue C to pair up with Queenie.



If I do go, I'll be bringing a 15-wk SG boy for sale.



And picking up two more dark choc "Elderberries" from Sue C plus a yellow-black boy!



Fingers crossed....

[Skwee]

are you forgetting about Rosie? :wink:

[Skwee]

Ok.



Your Rosie isa L/H Cinnie female and unfortunately due to my friends illness she didnt want to make either of your hams ill (Jim, being satin cream and handsom lad now) So Rosie is a serious nutcase and even i am struggling to control her! I have her with me here at college because i am taking her home with me to exhaust her and break her spirit with a huge amount of exercise and cuddles. She just missed that vital handling and she's a crazy thing like her mother.



Unfortunately you won't see me when you collect your hammies as i feel that after staying with my friend for the last week that i was intruding a bit :roll: but with the amount of cleaning thats been done teehee!!



Jim is sooooooo handom!! very much like his dad in personality, tame to the point of being lame and :wink: But he has huge eyes like his mum with makes him look slightly startled.



Are you planning on picking your guys up before or after Knebworth? Because my friend is very interested in new hams if you are going to be there :wink:



You see... we are interested in females eg. silvery greys/dark greys/lilacs and definately any of those colours + rusts in satin.(short hairs only)



Could swap them for your Rosie and Jim :wink: because we need new blood etc but because Rosie and Jim are so stunning we are going to *have* to ask for £5 each as they are from our best animals etc plus danger money on Rosie :wink: only kidding, she is lovely but just acts like a baby and is pingy.

[i-love-paddy]

Forgot about Rosie,



I will need your friends full adress and email so i can arrange a time to come over.

PM me it if you like.



If you send me an email of the 2 first choices of hams you want then i will email Sue Carter- I know she has blacks and yellow blacks.not sure of the other colours.

[i-love-paddy]

this is what the breeder has emailed me back-



Yellow is the gene that produces torts. It is dominant, therefore yellows will be produced from most yellow x something else matings. You will also get torts from yellow x something else matings.



Honey is yellow plus cinnamon, so therefore will produce torts carrying cinnamon. The yellow part is dominant. So if you mate a pure Golden male to a honey female you will get yellow (males) and more tort females (carrying cinnamon, ie honey)



Tortoiseshell is the yellow gene plus another colour and is always female. It is literally a coloured animal with yellow coloured patches. If the main colour of the animal is golden, the patches on a tort will be yellow. If the main colour is black, the patches on a black tort are either yellow or yellow/black. Rust tort is rust with orangey yellow patches.



Black on its own is nothing to do with tortoiseshell. It is a separate gene.



Yellow black is an animal that is a combination of black and yellow. In the same way as honey is a combination of cinnamon and yellow.



When yellow and rust combine, you can also get honeys which is the kind of honeys I have in the litter I told you about. Rust honeys, which are not strictly standard but look very similar to "proper" honeys.



Cinnamon is a bright orange with dark red eyes and blue undercolour.

Rust is a brownish orange with dark brown eyes and light ticking with grey undercolour. They are similar but different genes and act in a similar way when combined with other colours.

Rust and black can make chocolate, when combined in the right way.

Cinnamon and black can make dove when combines in the right way.



My litter are from satin rust tort to black dom spot. They therefore carry chocolate.



So, If you took the satin rust tort:

whatever you mate her to you will get torts and yellow males.

If you mate her to a male that is rust or carries rust, you will get rust.

If you mate her to a male carrying rust and black you will get chocolates.

Dont mix the rust and cinnamon genes, you get a yuchy mix that fits neither standard.



If you take the satin honey male, any female you mate him to should produce torts.



The yellows I have may carry dark grey as the father is yellow carrying dark grey and the mother is gold tort rex carrying dark grey. There were 7 yellows in the litter and 1 smoke pearl. No torts which is unusual.



What colours do you have that will be ready to breed from in 2 months or so and I will tell you if they are compatible with the satin rust honey, the satin rust tort or a yellow from the younger litter. There is only a week difference between the 2 litters so should run on together for a few weeks wthout problem.





I will keepyou posted on what i decide