Cage Size + Convincing Parents that it must meet or exceed the minimum.

[Hammylove123]

Hello everyone ;)
I would really like a cage that is the US minimum (I believe it is 450 square inches, please correct me if I'm wrong.) But my parents are not convinced that it must be that size. I need to convince them that it needs to be that size. They usually just say: "Well, if shops sell them then it must be okay." Has anyone else experienced this, and if so how did you convince them for the correct cage size? Or even if you haven't, i'd love to here your thoughts and ideas! :D
~ Hammylove123

[JLPrairie]

This is a good link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkJ3YW27mkk

Any other ErinsAnimals or HoppingHammy videos relating to cages are great, especially the impressive cage tours.

If they are worried about money, DIY cages are great idea. If they are worried about space...well, 450 sq. inches doesn't seem like much when you move some furniture around.

The FeldHamster's blog has some great articles, even though it's german, there's always an english translation: Naturnahe Hamstergehege: Kein Knast! / Don't jail me! (http://hamstergehege.blogspot.com/2012/03/kein-knast-dont-jail-me.html#english) is one good example.

Another good post on her blog is: Naturnahe Hamstergehege: Wissenschaftliche Fakten wie ein Hamsterheim beschaffen sein sollte (http://hamstergehege.blogspot.com/2010/03/wissenschaftliche-fakten-wie-ein.html)

Although the posts' recommended cage size is pretty difficult to meet (even my DIY cage only measures 650 sq. inches, 70 sq. inches less than what Germans recommend for dwarves), it shows, nevertheless, that hamsters need a large cage.

Good luck!

[Hammylove123]

Thanks JLPrairie! This really helped!:-D Maybe my parents will be convinced.
~ Hammylove123

[Pebbles82]

Yes it's difficult when shops sell them isn't it. Especially in the US as cages are all too small or unsuitable, except for a couple which are quite expensive and not easy to find. Which is why most owners have tanks - and your parents probably don't want a big tank in the house :rolleyes:

Good sized bins to make cages with aren't that easy to find. One great option that gives a hamster plenty of space and looks stunning in a living room, is the Ikea detolf hack - the detolf glass cabinet costs about $60. It can stand on Kallax units for storage underneath (although this does add to the cost). It's just a glass cabinet tipped on its side with the door left off. Although there is a bit of diy involved in making a lid.

I would try a couple of approaches:

1) Tell them you have found a cage you want and have saved up most of the money for it (if not all).

2) Then show them some official information on the behavioural problems hamsters have when they are in unsuitable housing or the cage is too small - stress behaviours, tooth damage, illness - all costing bills at the vets! I'll try and add some "official" links below. And say that just because something is commercially viable with a high profit margin, doesn't make it humane or a good buy. :mad: Welfare advice is for minimum 450 square inches.

Do you have a budget for a cage? The one I'm thinking of costs about $100. But it is smaller and lighter than a tank or a detolf (still an excellent sized cage for a hamster though).

So maybe think about what you really want to get - decide for yourself - and then put the case for getting it :-)

If it's for a Syrian/Teddy Bear Hamster, these are good options:

1) This is the cage I mentioned. The Marchioro Goran 82. It's a rat cage but bar spacing fine for a Syrian hamster. It has a lovely big front opening door so it makes it easier to interact with and tame your hamster, plus easy to get things in and out of the cage. It also comes with a nice big rat sized tube which is a good size for a Syrian hamster (they can be 7cm wide with their pouches full!) Only seems to available online and I think this is the cheapest price. It's the 82 you want, not the 72 which is too small. This is about the smallest size cage you would want for a Syrian Hamster - but it's not too small either. It's tall enough to fit a 12" wheel although most Syrians do fine with an 11" wheel. It's showing as unavailable at the moment but was available earlier today.

Marchioro Products Marchioro Goran Rat Cage Small Pet Cages (http://www.petmountain.com/product/small-pet-cages/11442-606666/marchioro-products-marchioro-goran-rat-cage.html)

2) Petsmart do dollar per gallon sales so you can get a 40 gallon breeder tank for $40. Although it would need a lid making or I think you can get Zilla lids to fit which aren't too expensive. A 40 gallon breeder is about 3 feet long by 2 feet deep - slightly bigger than the Goran cage by a few inches either way, but not that much bigger. The pros and cons - tanks are big and heavy. But you can put lots of deep bedding in them - it would fit on top of a chest of drawers, so no extra floorspace needed. With deep bedding it smells less and you don't need to clean out so often - just spot clean mainly (a selling point for your Mum - another selling point is - Hamsters use litter trays :-) if you provide one). Unfortunately I don't know when the next sale is.

3) You could make a bin cage. The best way is to get a bin big enough to give one continuous floorspace area. Two smaller bins joined together doesn't count and often doesn't work for the hamster. Although it's ok to have two bins joined together if one of them is at least the minimum recommended size. Personally I find bins joined together is not a great long term solution. Tubes that join them add to possible escapes. They can take up a bit of space like that as well and start looking a bit messy. If you stack two then it isn't suitable when a hamster is older and can't climb (hence them needing enough continuous floorspace in one area - because although levels can add to enrichment, when they get older they can't use levels and need everything on one level). I think it's quite easy to find big enough bins for a dwarf hammy, but not that easy to find bins big enough or tall enough for a Syrian (teddy bear) hamster. The Iris Christmas tree bins are good but hard to find at this time of year.

4) Detolf

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Hamster+detolf&biw=911&bih=405&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGwfuRpLvSAhWHfRoKHfUtDL0Q_AUIBigB

So maybe have a think about what kind of cage appeals to you, what would work best in your space, and how much or little (or none!) diy you want to take on.

I actually love cages - the ventilation is good, they are easy to manage and you can attach and hang things from the bars to make it interesting and fun for the hamster. You don't get as much depth of bedding in but you can get a good 5 to 6" in and heap it up in the middle (cushions any falls). With the Goran cage as well you are coming at your hamster from the front/side rather than the top which helps with interaction and taming and they can climb out on your hand easier. But that's my personal preference - some people much prefer tanks.

Out of those options, for a Syrian, my favourites would be the Goran cage or the detolf. I think the detolf is a bit easier to manage than a big heavy tank - it's a bit lower. This does limit height for a 12" wheel - an 11" wheel fits fine - but you have all the extra floor space for bedding so it can be low at the wheel end. It is also made of safety glass whereas most tanks are normal breakable glass! Safety glass can break, but it's tougher so harder to break and doesn't break into big sharp pieces. It can also be suitable for any species of hamster.

If you have an Ikea nearby it could also be an easier option. And parents can often quite like the look of it as a room piece on top of kallax units :-) Plus extra storage underneath that looks nice too.

Show them the picture on this cage :-) It's actually an Expedit rather than a detolf (not made any more) but same idea).

The Best Hacks From the Fan Site Ikea Doesn't Want You To See (http://gizmodo.com/the-best-hacks-from-the-fan-site-ikea-doesnt-want-you-t-1592269231)

Is there anyone could help you with diy or lid making? I think it's easier to make a lid for a detolf than make a bin cage, but if you have someone handy who has used a hot knife to cut plastic before it isn't too hard after that.

For a Dwarf hamster there is maybe a bit more choice of bins for a bin cage. The largest size Samla box from Ikea is popular. The lid is sold separately.

SAMLA Box - IKEA (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90102971/)

The detolf again. Two cages that are good for dwarf hamsters but both quite expensive at about $120 to $150, plus a perspex tank that is a good size and not too expensive.

Marchioro Kevin (this one is in stock). This could also be good for a Syrian if you take the tubes out - they're too small for a Syrian. It is basically the same size cage as the Goran but has narrow 7mm bar spacing. You don't need to use the plastic shelves etc if you don't want and can set it up how you want.

Marchioro Products Marchioro Kevin Small Pet Cage Small Pet Cages (http://www.petmountain.com/product/small-pet-cages/11442-599957/marchioro-kevin-small-pet-cage.html)

Savic Mickey 2XL. Again has a lovely big front opening door and narrow 7mm bar spacing. It is a lower cage so easier to set up for dwarf hamsters. I had this cage for our Syrian. It's fine for a Syrian but I upgraded him because he was very big and needed a 12" wheel - which does fit but takes up a fair bit of space. The contents are intended for mice. They are all ok except for the metal grid shelf which needs taking out really - bad for hammies feet and can give them a painful condition. And the wheel is tiny but might do for a dwarf hammy for starters. Far too small for a Syrian. I just used a flat top house as a shelf instead. It comes with a hanging sputnik thing, water bottle and food bowl and some tubes for floor toys. The tubes are fine for dwarf hammies but far too narrow for Syrians (found out the hard way when ours got stuck).

Only seems to be available on Amazon and is not cheap!

https://www.amazon.com/Lixit-Animal-Care-Hamster-X-Large/dp/B003QRMBG0/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488577299&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Lixit+Mickey+2XL

The size of those three cages is what you want to be aiming for size-wise for a Syrian. For a dwarf hamster, the minimum 450 square inches is slightly smaller than those cages and this tank style cage fits it - just.

It's actually about 540 square inches but the base slopes in a lot which effectively makes it a bit smaller.

http://www.abbaseed.com/SMALL_ANIMAL_CAGES_/FOP_CAGES/SMALL_ANIMAL/HAMSTER_CAGES_/hamster_cages_.html

It's the top one - the Fop Tamburino at $60. For a dwarf hammy I think this would be a good cage, not too expensive and no diy. It's the only stockist I know for it in the Us, (thanks to Dr McK's excellent tips a couple of years ago). It comes with a good house.

Anyway - before I bore you to death. Think what you would like - then make a case for it :-) Then we can add some literature to show your parents. Getting the right cage in the first place can save money and problems later on.

[AmityvilleHams]

I think the biggest factor of convincing comes when you can make a cage that is over a square meter for less than a cage half that size :) Parents do tend to enjoy saving money,plus I suppose it can show some responsibility when you're trying to budget well!

Make sure your parents know the current US minimum is not exactly accurate as well.Some might see the minimum and assume it's completely fine to have a cage that size,but in reality Syrian hamsters still showed obsessive behavior in that minimum size up to something like a Detolf.A 40 breeder for example,while excellent for most dwarf hamsters,is still on the small side for a Syrian given the general reactions that they've had.Emphasize knowing how to find these obsessive behaviors,what they are(pacing,corner digging,corner chewing,leaping at the glass if in a tank or bin,constant bottle climbing or chewing to an extent,etc).

Show them that you can make a cage above and beyond the US minimum,in fact meeting and slightly exceeding the German square meter(for Syrians,dwarf hamsters is half a square meter)minimum,for far less than any storebought cage that is a tiny fraction of that at best which can't even hold a proper wheel.

I'd highly recommend a bin cage,starting with at least one 105 qt Sterilite bin from Walmart(these are only $12,plus the cost of 1/2 inch mesh at $16 from Home Depot which will last a very long time even using it for several directly connected bins,then zip ties along with wire cutters and a wood burning knife which shouldn't go over $25 but again will last far more than just the initial bin).Eventually upgrade to two of these and a 64 qt($7,Walmart only)directly connected,but make sure that your parents are aware this isn't costing anything but the cost of the bins to upgrade.

[JLPrairie]

Detolf is one of my personal favorites, and I would've chosen it if I had enough space. It looks gorgeous, like a proffesionally made cage, and doesn't look like an elementary school art project (which, I'll admit, bin cages can/usually/always end up looking). If you can find it in an estate sale (which was actually why money wasn't a problem when considering to buy a detolf, it was on sale for $30) that'll be an extra-extra-bonus. I stumbled at the very least 6 detolfs in estate sales, it was crazy.

[Hammylove123]

Thanks to everyone that commented, it really helps and hopefully now I can get a nice sized hamster cage.:mrgreen:
~ Hammylove123

[Pebbles82]

Any ideas what you would like?

[Hammylove123]

I just found a cage that is perfect for hamsters (it's actually a gineau pig and rabbit cage but is far too small for them and excellent for hamsters.) I checked the measurements and it is 720 inches squared, of only floor space not including levels. I have a pet shop near me that sells it, and they recently put it on sale at £74.50 (Reasonable price.) I also checked the height, so the wheel can fit. The height is 14 inches which is big enough for an 11" wheel (I'm getting a Syrian.) I think my parents are most worried about space in my room. I think I'd be able to fit the cage in though if I move some things around. The cage is called: Cage Maxi Duna Multy.
~ Hammylove123

[Pebbles82]

Ooh that's a great cage! I apologise - I was under the impression you were in the US when you talked about square inches. Are you in the Uk? If so there are a good choice of cages at reasonable prices. But the maxi duna multy is one of them!

[Hammylove123]

Yes, I'm in the uk. :-D It's just I usually say square inches when talking about hamster cages because it is the most commonly used measurement when it comes to hamster cages. ;)
~ Hammylove123

[AmityvilleHams]

Have you considered the Ikea Lack but using four tables rather than two to make a larger cage?You could start with just two and do a gradual transition,but it isn't too easy.DIY cages are generally expandable unlike premade cages(such as the one you mentioned),so if your hamster does show signs of boredom(obsessive behaviors,which are certainly not unlikely even in that cage size)you can at least be capable of expansion.This is very important and should be mentioned,as a lot of times it is simply ignored :(

DIY is cheaper in almost any case by the way,plus the benefit of being expandable is something an expensive storebought cage cannot offer as mentioned(or in some cases such as barred cages is possible but very difficult).Unlike the cage mentioned,you'd be able to fit the largest possible wheel,which is always important because you never know how big a hamster may get.This saves you from spending so much on a cage that isn't suitable for all possibilities,which can be very good with parents as you won't have to spend lots of extra money!

[Hammylove123]

Hmm.. Yes, I am considering a DIY cage. But the trouble is, no one in my family is good at DIY. So I'm not sure if we would be able to make one. However, DIY cages can offer a lot of space and, as you mentioned, if the hamster does get bored it can be expanded so the hamster has more to explore. I'll think about it.:-D
~ Hammylove123

[AmityvilleHams]

DIY doesn't have to be difficult!You might not want to go into the Lack then though,as it would require at least a drill.Something like a Detolf would be hard to fit otherwise a double version of that could work,but if you can find any assortment of bins and then connect them to get similar floor space(around the square meter mark at some point)it would be wonderful to get that option which requires minimal tool usage :) Just keep an open mind,that is one of the best things you can do when it comes to pet ownership!

[Hammylove123]

Good idea :)
~ Hammylove123

[Pebbles82]

There are other popular cages in the Uk as well as the maxi duna multy. From Zooplus - you order them online. They can take up to a week to arrive but delivery is free. For a Syrian the Barney and Alexander are popular (same sized base as the maxi duna multy), also the Alaska, which is smaller but not a bad size. But if it's easier for you to get something locally, then I'm sure your hammy will love the maxi duna multy and I would say it is better than a Hamster Heaven due to the floorspace. It's also a lovely looking cage and you get a good view of your hammy :-)

Not all the cages on this page are suitable though - some are still too small.

Hamster Cages | great selection at zooplus (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/small_pets/hutches_cages/hamster_cages)

[Hammylove123]

Thanks for the link! There's a good selection on there, so more choice. But I'll watch out for the too small cages. :)
~ Hammylove123

[Hammylove123]

I had a look at some of the cage sizes on the website link and had a rethink. I don't think that I'd be able to fit the Maxi Duna Multy into my room, so I have decided to move some furniture around to fit the Alaska hamster cage. (Also, I'm pretty sure I'm getting a Syrian but I may be getting a dwarf. I have never had a dwarf before so I'm still deciding on whether to get a Syrian, one I've already had twice, or a dwarf, I've never had before.)



But i'll probably do another thread on that. :rolleyes:
~ Hammylove123

[AmityvilleHams]

Dwarf hams can be wonderful!They tend not to need as much space as Syrians,cost less to get nice things for(being smaller,as Syrian sized products get very expensive unfortunately).Of course,that can be a better suited discussion to another thread,but definitely consider it due to the space you can offer vs being capable of expanding should a hamster not be happy in what you can fit :)