I think I separated them for too long

[alpacassei]

Stephano and Francisco had to be separated for 2 hours while Stephano was at the vets. They were fine before then but now Francisco is missing almost an entire ear.

They haven't acted aggressive towards eachother since and they were sharing food just now so I'm not sure if Francisco irritated Stephano (he's been really itchy and sore from his dry skin and the vet visit stressed him out a bit) and Stephano bit him but I'm worried they'll need separating.

I've removed any items from their cage where they can corner eachother and I've prepared a bin cage if they need separating.

[AmityvilleHams]

Separate them.Once you've had hamsters separated for any period of time(even a few minutes),you should never keep them together again :( Take this as an experience to learn from.

[cypher]

It's not just the length of time they were apart, Stephano would smell very different coming back from the vets & Francisco may not have recognised him immediately, they might settle down again but do keep a very close watch in case they fight again.
If one of a pair has to go to the vet it's often a good idea to take both together.

[souffle]

You need to separate them. Please just do it. The poor skin may be due to stress. It is not fair to keep them together at this stage if he has now lost a whole ear. You cannot monitor them 24/7 and even if you could his mental health is equally as important as his physical as they impact on each other. Two males would not live together in a natural situation. Groups would be mixed sexes and ages.
Sometimes when they are a lot older re intros are possible but they need to be alone for now. They should settle in about 10 days.

[alpacassei]

It's not just the length of time they were apart, Stephano would smell very different coming back from the vets & Francisco may not have recognised him immediately, they might settle down again but do keep a very close watch in case they fight again.

I think that's what it was. The vet thinks Stephano's allergic to the mites they naturally have so he was given some drops so he would've smelt like the vets and his medication. I'm guessing what happened is Francisco thought there was a new hamster in his cage and tried to fight him and Stephano fought back and bit his ear.

I've been watching them closely and they haven't fought since and they're not acting territorial towards each other.

Francisco's ear (the half that's left) is swollen and sore but it's not infected and it hasn't been bleeding which is good. I've cleaned it with warm boiled salt water (like you use to clean piercings).

Even if they don't start fighting, I'll separate them anyway if Francisco's ear isn't healing properly.

[cypher]

It wouldn't be an actual allergy to the mites, those mites live on them all the time it's only when their immune system is compromised that the mites cause a problem, this can be due to many things but is often stress related so it may be as well to separate them.
Giving a little brewers yeast can sometimes help a bit, only a tiny amount, either crushed tablets or flakes & I would still give the flax & epo we discussed in your other thread to help his skin heal & stay in good condition.

[alpacassei]

It wouldn't be an actual allergy to the mites, those mites live on them all the time it's only when their immune system is compromised that the mites cause a problem, this can be due to many things but is often stress related so it may be as well to separate them.
Giving a little brewers yeast can sometimes help a bit, only a tiny amount, either crushed tablets or flakes & I would still give the flax & epo we discussed in your other thread to help his skin heal & stay in good condition.

He hadn't been acting stressed, so I don't think it's that (the only time he was stressed was after I gave him the drops which I think is what caused him to act aggressive towards Francisco).

I haven't been able to get the flaxseed and epo yet, I've been stuck in bed with the flu and I was so tired and sick that I forgot about it when I took Stephy to the vets yesterday :( I'm picking it up tomorrow though. Do you think giving some to Franny would help his ear heal?

[alpacassei]

I have a week off form uni so I'm able to watch them all day this week. If there's any sign either of them are stressed or fighting I'll separate them immediately.

Should I give Francisco the mite medicine too to stop him passing them onto Stephano?

[AmityvilleHams]

Medicine should never be given without a veterinarian approving of it.Such medicines can be extremely damaging to the health of otherwise healthy hamsters who have no need for it,so it would be far too dangerous to risk :(

Separate them now instead of waiting.You've already got more than enough reason to,so don't wait until it's more obvious that they're not doing well together or they end up injuring each other even worse.

[Pebbles82]

I agree with the others. You need to separate them now and not wait. Once an injury has occurred from fighting, the next fight could leave one of them horribly maimed or dead. There have been some pretty horrific injuries from dwarf hamster fights with half a face missing or eyes hanging out of their sockets - then the maimed hamster has to be put to sleep. The second fight will be worse than the first. If it was just a bit of squabbling then yes you could monitor them and see if they settle down, but an ear injury has occurred and that is a sign that things can get much worse very quickly. It's a bit like the old thing of one a dog has drawn blood they become dangerous.

Stress can show in different ways. They don't need to act stressed, to feel stressed - if that makes sense. Sadly they do need to live separately from now on.

No don't give the mite medicine to your other hammy. It is pretty strong stuff. As Cypher mentioned, mites live on them naturally, but become prolific when they are ill or run down (or under stress as that depletes the immune system too).

Separating them should help prevent the spread of the mites as well, and your other hammy may not get them anyway if he has a stronger immune system at the moment. Finish the course of mite treatment given for the hammy it was given for and then take it from there. It's an ideal time to separate them anyway or you would have needed to clean everything in the cage - so putting him in a new cage or tank with clean things means you start out without him being reinfected from bedding or toys. You'll probably need to do a cage clean on the current cage as well (the one the hammy without mites is in).

It's a shame, but it is very common for pairs to fall out, especially after a change of some kind. Do you have a spare cage? If not a plastic storage bin would do temporarily, with the lid off, until you get chance to make it into a bin cage or find another cage (there are some good second hand deals on ebay or you can get a Duna Multy for about £33).

Cage Duna Multy (http://www.portonaquapet.co.uk/-M36261?gclid=Cj0KEQiA8orFBRCEpODivaOft_EBEiQAy3mlf SmcUe1rzBr7UODHKHE4uOlQaIGpHmwAm9zah5H3AxwaAkrY8P8 HAQ)

[alpacassei]

I've just separated them. Stephano's in the bin cage and Francisco's in the Duna. Franny's asleep and hasn't noticed Stephy's gone but Stephano's looking for Franny and trying to burrow and climb out of his new cage :(

[AmityvilleHams]

Give it time and he should settle.It's going to be different for them and they'll need time to adjust,as with any major change :)

[alpacassei]

It's been about an hour and he's still frantically trying to get out the new cage :(

[AmityvilleHams]

An hour is not much time at all.It might take a few days,up to a week or so,but the point is adjustment takes far more than an hour.

[cypher]

It can take anything up to a couple of weeks to settle but usually a few days will do it, just leave him be to settle in on his own, don't be tempted to move him or change things around in his cage as interfering can just prolong the process.

[Fluffagrams]

Don't worry, after a separation it can take a while for them to adjust just as they would with any change to their living environment.

A couple of years ago I had to separate a pair of Chinese and the more dominant one seemed to be out of sorts for a week or two but he got used to it and both went on to live long and happy lives.

People are often reluctant to split a pair up as they worry that one hamster will miss the other but in the long run have found it less stressful as they've not got the worry that they'll inflict worse injury on each other.

[alpacassei]

He's sleeping now and hopefully when he wakes up he'll be more settled. I've got to buy him a bigger bin though since I only had a mini duna sized bin free. Should I leave it a few weeks for him to settle to being alone or just change the bin tomorrow so it's done and he won't get stressed by another change later on?

Francisco hasn't reacted to Stephano being gone. Maybe it's common that the dominant hamster is the one that's most affected?
Francisco's ear is looking a little better since I cleaned it but it's still pretty red. Now that I've cleaned off all the fur and bedding that got stuck to it, I can see it's the entire thinner top half of his ear that's missing :( Really hoping it doesn't get infected

[cypher]

If he's used to a bigger space then putting him into a bigger bin straight away & then letting him settle once & for all rather than just getting him settled then moving him may work better, if he really didn't settle in the bigger bin you may need to move him back to the smaller one but that probably won't happen if you give him enough time.

Hope Francisco's ear heals up ok.

[Pebbles82]

He's probably more bothered by the cage change than about being separated. As Cypher said if you get him a bigger bin he should settle into that easier. The Ikea Samla might be a good one if you have an Ikea nearby and it only costs £10. When you get the new bin try and get it all set up before moving him in - re-use the substrate from the small bin (it'll smell a bit familiar by now) and spread it out on top of the new substrate (you'll need more than you have in the little bin). Maybe try and set it up so house, wheel, toys, food bowl and water are in the same or very similar locations to where they were in his old bin when he shared, so it feels more familiar. If you can get a couple of tasty chew sticks that should help distract him too. Whimzees mini crocodiles and toothbrushes are popular (but not always easily available except online). Then don't change anything for a while and give him two weeks to settle in without disturbing anything. Spot clean if you find it gets a bit stinking - you can just take a handful of pee'd on substrate out and replace it and mix the new in with the old a bit, but if he pees in a sandbath you might not even need to spot clean. Personally I'd give it longer than two weeks before doing a clean and just spot clean for a while, or wipe the wheel now and then if it gets pee'd in. Or replace some of the sand now and then (you can just scoop out the wet bits) - rather than a big clean where you do everything at once.

I'm sure they'll both be happier once the one that has moved has settled in. Adding a new toy might be nice too - somethig he couldn't have as a pair maybe. A tube or something. And he could have a platform now as well as no territorial issues. Although I know all these things add up. Some people make platforms out of ikea knuff magazine racks.

[flowerfairy]

When I separated my two roborovski sisters Fairy, the more dominant one found it harder to adjust. Flower was delighted! Fairy settled in a couple of days. They are now next to each other.

[alpacassei]

Stephano's new bin! It's 80 x 40cm which is slightly under the recommended minimum but not by much so I'm hoping he'll be fine with it and if not I'll extend it later :) I need to make a frame for the lid but he can't reach it and I don't have the tools to do that right now :(

He's settled in now and is sleeping in his house. Francisco is still doing fine without Stephy.
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Stephano's cage in comparison to Francisco's. (The lower platform is removed from Francisco's cage for cleaning).
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[alpacassei]

Stephano's been burrowing tunnels all night :)

[alpacassei]

Update!

Francisco's ear has been healing well and he's been lifting his injured ear up instead of keeping it flat against his head all the time. He's sleeping a bit more than usual but I'm guessing that's because he's injured? Also he's not happy I've taken his sand bath out until he's healed :(

Stephano's skin is also doing well and he's adjusting well to living alone.

[CMB]

Good the hear his ear is getting better. Hope it's not took long until the sand bath can be enjoyed again.

They both seem better off living apart.

[cypher]

Sounds like Stephano's been having fun!
Good to hear Francisco's ear is healing well, what about the dry skin patch?
Hope the poor little guy is able to have his sand back soon, know how much they love them & he must be missing it lots!

[Hamsterita]

I'm glad that everything is going smooth. I hope soon all the problems will be completely solved.

[alpacassei]

Sounds like Stephano's been having fun!
Good to hear Francisco's ear is healing well, what about the dry skin patch?
Hope the poor little guy is able to have his sand back soon, know how much they love them & he must be missing it lots!

His skin's doing better. It's still a bit flakey and dry but there's no new patches and it's looking like some of it has gone which is good :)

He's getting his sand back tomorrow :D