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Skwee
11-08-2005, 10:11 AM
after everything... just everything... it's unbelieveable. I just spent hours the other day writing up an article about Wet Tail for another forum and now guess what??



Skwee has Wet Tail.



I am taking him to the vet for some Baytril (they have refused to do a repeat prescription or prescribe me Baytril for more than one hamster despite me saying that I have been around 30 odd other hamsters.. I think she wants to see all of them :evil: ). Some vets can be seriously unhelpful. so.. all very well she's a small animal vet but I don't think she knows much about hamsters. She is the same vet who put my Sonny to sleep a few months ago...



I can guarantee she will say it's Wet Tail but I don't want her to. I want her to examine him and be able to know if it is or isn't rather than just saying it is with a glance... Ok so I think it's Wet Tail but something isn't right.. something I am missing and I can't think of it... why do I get the feeling it isn't wet tail?

Skwee
11-08-2005, 11:58 AM
Been to the vets, although she doesn't specialise in rodents, just in 'small animals such as cats, dogs, and bunny rabbits' she knew I wasn't hanging about to be told to take him home to die qiuetly. I was in with her for half an hour [;)] questioning her every move. She was happy to be questioned too and happy to explain everything.



But yeah, I have a pot of Baytril [;)] ooops she under charged me, which is enough for a couple of hamsters, and she also gave me 40g of AviPro which will last ages seeing as we only need a tiny bit... I also got charged child rate for the consultation and altogether I paid £10.90 for all the medication, consultation, advice and information. I guess I was quite impressed heh.



Skwee wasn't [;)] he kicked and squirmed and screamed blue murder! He didn't bite though.



We also found that he was struggling to pee, probably because he's in so much pain... when she squished his belly a bit he peed all over her whilst shrieking. I wasn't amused really but my mum was. She was sat in a chair in the corner sniggering away. *tuts* mothers.



bah someone help, I'm stuck. I'm not sure what to do with Skwee tonight, if he's in his cage I can't keep him warm enough but if he's in his travel cage I can't give him his water bottle (and he isn't having fruit or vegetables at the moment)

pophammy
11-08-2005, 12:07 PM
Is is possible that if you have an airing cupboard you could maybe take out your towels and fit his cage in there? Our friend's hamster had Wet Tail and she did this and he made a full recovery! Hope he gets well soon.

Skwee
11-08-2005, 12:19 PM
His cage is a FOP Gimmey (Google it) It's seriously huge and wont fit, and so I'm giving him water every 15/20 minutes by hand at the moment... I am so exhausted. I have cried myself into a huge migraine and am feeling generally ill over failing my stupid driving test and Skwee being so ill.



I think I'll find away of fixing a bowl or bottle in his travel cage because I'm never going to be able to stay awake.

nooboo
11-08-2005, 12:31 PM
I hope Skwee gets better soon, as for the driving test never mind, I know someone who failed it 11 times.. past on the 12 :?

Emma
11-08-2005, 03:06 PM
All the best drivers fail at least once :wink:



Wet tail technically is a very specific disease that causes diarrhoea, not just the symptom of diarrhoea itself - I'm assuming you mean that Skwee has diarrhoea? (I'm sure you knew that from your article, I'm just being a pedant today....!)



So bear in mind that the antibiotics might not help if it's not caused by a bacterial infection, think about other possible causes - stress, unusual food eaten recently etc.



How is he doing?

souffle
11-08-2005, 03:14 PM
All the best drivers fail at least twice as in my case!!!!!!! I've learned there is no point in anger. Just try, try again and you'll get there in the end.



How is the little one? As Emma says, it may be from another cause so be hopeful that it will pass in a few days. Fingers crossed

Skwee
11-08-2005, 07:37 PM
yeah he has all the symptoms and it certainly wouldn't be the first time I've seen wet tail....



-lethargic

-hunched up

-walks uncomfortably.. well waddles ..

-weak and falling over

-is ... WAS very dehydrated...

-has really bad diarrhoea



he really .. smells of wet tail. thats hard to explain lol. but I'm not so sure it is wet tail now...



i was convinced when we got back from vets that he might actually have an infection somewhere that is making him struggle to pee, not sure if that could possibly be stressful enough to trigger wet tail?



i cant think what else could have triggered it... no change in diet or environment at all for the last 6 weeks!



2:35 am and I'm doing hot water bottle, water and food checks.



He is alive, enough so to give me a quick and gentle nip to say i was late feeding him



He wanted his baby food mixed with AviPro and metatone and he ate a fair bit of it.



I'm also in a panic now because still not convinced its just wet tail because although he has the symptoms for wet tail... 'something' just isn't right and i just cant figure out what it is...



Then i had a nasty thought, the farm i work on (alpacas) is having huge problems with coccidiosis at the moment and it so easily could have been transfered here.. it would show up in very similar symptoms too.



It would also make for the right timing too! because skwee has been 'off colour' for a week and a half (not weekend just gone but the weekend before) .. i work weekends...



A week and a half if its wet tail just doesnt seem right... it doesnt.. it doesnt feel like wet tail.. i have seen it so many times and its not quite the same...



I will ring the vets tomorrow to see if hamsters can actually contract wet tail and if they can i will try my hardest to get them to do a fecal sample although i seriously cant afford this... well i cant but going to leave me soooo in debt to my parents. heh... although paycheck is due soon...



Bah, im not sure which i wish it was... coccidia is killing off great big farm animals... it could do serious damage to a little one.

i-love-paddy
11-09-2005, 12:50 AM
vets seem very quick to diagnose wet tail.



i really h ope skwee makes a ful recovery



((hugs))

Pendragon
11-09-2005, 03:36 AM
Then i had a nasty thought, the farm i work on (alpacas) is having huge problems with coccidiosis at the moment and it so easily could have been transfered here.. it would show up in very similar symptoms too.



I've had experience of coccidiosis in rabbits, and as far as I'm aware, it is species specific - i.e. bird coccidia won't infect rabbits, and so on. But you may wish to check this with a vet or do a search on it, as I'm obviously no expert.



There are other things that can cause similar symptoms, so I think a faecal check is the only option. At least if you mention coccidiosis it may make the vet decide to take a faecal swab.



One thing that springs to mind is giardia, a type of amoebic dysentery. I have heard of it occurring in rats, but not in hamsters, yet there is no reason why it couldn't also affect them. It also affects cats & dogs, and many years ago I had a great deal of trouble with one of my cats - the vets I consulted were not aware that it could be giardia, as back then it wasn't known to affect cats. Treatment is an anti-fungal such as Flagyl, or a general parastic treatment like Panacur; antibiotics are of no use at all, as they wouldn't be in a case of coccidiosis, the reason being it's not a bacterial infection but caused by amoeba-like organisms. By the way, giardia also has a characteristic smell!



So there are a lot of things it could be, and your vet seems to have plumped for the most obvious (i.e. wet-tail, which is caused by a specific bacterial infection and therefore should respond to relevant antibiotics). But mentioning you have a lot of contact with other species may make the vet start to think outside the square and consider something else!

Skwee
11-09-2005, 01:37 PM
ok, i am now even more sure its not wet tail, he has too much energy, not hunched up etc and still alive and biting hard for wet tail.



however if it is coccidia im totally screwed. theres no way i can spend the next however long without touching a cat/dog/another hamster/guinea pig and almost as bad... im at risk myself. simply because i have no idea which type it is.



this is so crazy and way out of control :(



Skwee is running in circles, has been for ages. theres been blood in his diarrhoea too....

Skwee
11-09-2005, 01:57 PM
not to mention my dad is absolutely seething... im never going to be allowed a hamster again... let alone get the hamstery i have always dreamed of to start showing.



if my dreams cant happen? whats the point any more?

Pendragon
11-09-2005, 02:07 PM
however if it is coccidia im totally screwed. theres no way i can spend the next however long without touching a cat/dog/another hamster/guinea pig and almost as bad... im at risk myself. simply because i have no idea which type it is.



Wait... you haven't read what I wrote. Coccidiosis as far as I am aware is species specific.



You don't know what he's got so don't go mental! :D



Giardia is something that's in the environment and only if the parasite multiplies does it cause a problem. It's not incredibly contagious... most people's and animals' imune systems cope with it. Don't quote me but I have a feeling it's present in tap water and is legally allowed to be there if under a certain number per gallon (or whatever). Most common sources of infection in dogs & cats are from wild birds or drinking stagnant rainwater.



theres been blood in his diarrhoea too....

Get thee to a vet with him tomorrow. Blood in faeces is not good. Mention things like coccidiosis and giardia and see what the reaction is - if it's not responding to antibiotics, they might agree to try something like Flagyl (Metronidazole), if it is suitable for hamsters. I don't know if Panacur can be used in hamsters but that's another treatment for it - probably would be off-label use, but I've heard of it being used in rabbits for E. cuniculi.



When my (indoor) cat had Giardia she was nursing kittens, but ate well and remained lively and healthy otherwise, and raised her kittens perfectly, even put on weight, despite disgusting smelly diarrhoea for 4 weeks! The vet tried all manner of antibiotics and none worked, until finally one of the kittens went down with it as well and a different vet prescribed Flagyl for them all. It cleared up within 2 days (and I could take the clothespeg off my nose!).

Skwee
11-09-2005, 04:23 PM
^^ ignore me what i said.



im the one who is ill. paranoid.



skwee is ill. i know no more.

souffle
11-10-2005, 08:53 AM
Always look on the bright side Skwee. Follow your vets instructions. They have examined your hamster, cross your fingers toes and everything else and hope for the best. If the worst comes to the worst you will know you tried your best and your little one knows that too.

i-love-paddy
11-10-2005, 08:56 AM
How is Skwee Gemma? Please let us know x

Skwee
11-10-2005, 11:48 AM
he's.... still biting hard :wink:



no better no worse.



its sad because he is sooooo hyperactive, he really wants to run and run and run in his wheel like he always does at this time but he just doesnt have the energy, he keeps trying to escape but when or if he does escape (or i let him out and he thinks he has) he just collapses in a heap exhausted :(





he's still having to be force fed and forced to drink water :(

Skwee
11-10-2005, 02:03 PM
Better news!!!



He's up, hes running in his wheel, he has eaten a load and all on his own and hard food not mush!! he's dissing in his sand and having a good wash now :D



He is still on Baytril but yesterday morning i stopped giving him the probiotic to see if it was something in his gut that happened to like his gut.. and pro biotic making it better for whatever is there...



24 hours later (well... less) and he has done a complete U-Turn and is looking really good and hasnt lost more weight!

Pendragon
11-10-2005, 02:20 PM
Great news! Go Skwee!



Incidentally I emailed someone I know online, who is a veterinary student at Glasgow Uni and specialising in hamsters, about coccidiosis etc.



Here's the reply I received:

Hams DO get coccidia, some are more species specific but not all and they

can be zoonotic. They also respond to some antibiotics. I hope this lady's

vet is aware of it (its not an obscure fact but one of the main causes of

GIT infections in hams)



I would actually advise her to go with the fluids, antibiotics and any

dietary suppelements/prebiotics/probiotics her vet can offer.



Sadly, it MAY be wet tail as the necrosis and intussuceptions can cause

bleeding.



The prognosis is what we are told to describe as "guarded" however....



I'm sorry I cant offer some miracle suggestions for this, GIT upsets in hams

are just not good basically due to their rapid onset, the animals small size

and the limited availability of suitable antibiotics. Only enroflaxacin

(Baytril) is licensed in hams in the UK and although it is a very, very

good, modern, wide spectrum anitbiotic it may not always do the trick.



Hope this helps!

Skwee
11-10-2005, 02:57 PM
thank you :D it helped :D and im specially happy that Skwee is now looking a heck of a lot better!! there was only a tiny bit of bllod once maybe twice, enough to make me worry but that was yesterday and its normal and even slightly less watery today!

babyboos
11-10-2005, 03:01 PM
Go Liz :oops: :wink: Wish there were more vets and vets-to-be like her out there but then she has a fantastic background in microbiology too so is rather unique.