Losing weight

[Chiela]

My campbell is from around the 8th of april, but doesn't eat more than what is just necessary to keep herself going. Despite her age, she is only 27g and has lost 4g during the past week.

She is generally happy, does come out, does run in her wheel. If I put my hand into the cage she sits on it for a bit too. I cant for the life of me figure out what's wrong.

I have tried changing her diet to something more interesting. She went from burgess supa hamster to bunny dwarf hamster mix, mixed with this Dwarf hamster mix (http://www.ratrations.com/dwarf-hamster-no-freshwater-shrimps-p-1017.html) from Ratrations.com, and a few oats
To begin with she seemed more interested in the new mix, but now it's back to what it was before.

She isnt weaker than being able to climb the bars of her cage, and she even exits the door on the front if you open it and talk to her.
Sadly, as said she keeps losing weight. I took her to the vet but besides her weight she is fine and he cannot pinpoint a cause.

It makes me feel terrible that i cant help her, im really trying my best. But she is so tiny and skinny, and i fear every morning that I will wake up and find her dead, but every day i see a happy tiny hamster.
Does anyone have an idea of what I can try? I love her to bits

I have been wondering if anyone has heard about this before? can it be a cause of inbreeding?

In the end I have been wondering if it would be better to have her put down. I dont see her suffering, but in the end she is a pray animal and wouldnt show unless it was impossible not to. I really do not want her to suffer and this is the hardest piece of advice I will ever ask for, but do you guys think it would be better to say goodbye to her?

[cypher]

I'm really sorry to hear she's still losing weight in spite of all your efforts, you've tried really hard for your little girl.
It does sound as though she's doing ok other than the weight issue so I wouldn't give up on her yet.
You will know if she's unwell or suffering in any way, even though they can be good at hiding illness you would notice changes in behaviour or signs of weakness I'm sure.
You'll obviously have to watch her closely as she would probably be more vulnerable to illness being so tiny but I would just keep going as you are & see how she gets on.
Sorry I can't remember but have you tried tempting her with any soft foods like scrambled egg or porridge to see if she's eat a little of that? I wouldn't keep changing her diet now, you've tried enough! She's obviously not that food orientated but you could continue to introduce new items that might help keep her weight stable even if it doesn't increase.

[Chiela]

update: found out what's wrong with her.:( Type 1 diabetes. This can only be passed down genetically(?). I was advised to consult another vet, and he confirmed that this was indeed type 1 diabetes. He informed me that one the problems with type 1 diabetes, is that it greatly limits the absorption of nutrients from the food eaten. This should be caused by the lack of insulin, as insulin helps you absorb the nutrition in the first place. He also said he had seen it before and that it cannot be helped. Either she will be put down or she will starve :cry: What's worse is that she has started to make a sound of pain. She has made that sound multiple times today, so I don't think there's much to do.

I am so sad and angry. Chiela is my first hamster and I don't know that much about them. But I mean if I - an inexperienced - "hamster mum" can see there is something wrong with her from the day I got her home, then there is something wrong with the breeder, she should really be ashamed, as you can't convince me she didn't know. thankfully Cypher has been so kind to help and advice me (Thank you for all your help Cypher <3).

It really is heartbreaking to know that there's nothing that can keep my little girl going, I really hoped it wouldn't end like this. Keeping her for much longer would be really selfish too
I was really lucky to have her for this short while and I truly hope I have made her short life worth it, and that she has been happy to live with me.

[cypher]

I'm so sorry, poor little girl, this is really sad news.
I'm sure she's had the best life it was possible for her to have with you, you've tried so hard for her & she was lucky to have been given a home by someone so caring. If there's nothing else you can do try to take some comfort in that.

[racinghamster]

Hi Chiela. How did the vet/vets check for type 1 diabetes? Did they take a blood sample? Was it testing her urine only? I don`t know a lot about diabetes in hamster generally except to say it can sometimes be pulled back by diet alone, but obviously once it takes hold, it can be difficult to cure/reverse.

I did read today while looking at some other websites that sometimes if a hamster eats too many sunflower seeds or seeds and nuts in general, this can actually make a hamster lose weight, which seems a little mad, but apparently, switching them to a high carbohydrate diet can add the weight back on again just by feeding unusual things like pasta, maccaroni, brown bread, egg and such like and reducing (rather than removing) the nuts and seeds altogether, or removing them for a while from the daily diet. It also has something to do with fat burning and ketones and such, which goes over my head a bit! But I got the gist of what the article was saying.

I have a dwarf Russian hybrid and feed Burgess Supahamster, JR Farm dwarf mix from Zooplus (although I limit this to a small amount as it`s not really balanced) and he also gets Supreme Science Selective heart-shaped biscuits broken up with some millet spray as a treat and his small pieces of fresh raw veg.

Don`t feed lettuce or cabbage as these can act as diuretics. In other words, make the hamster pee more.

Lastly I would say don`t give up. If my hamster had gotten very thin, stopped eating altogether and looked as though he had no will to go on, then I might suggest a final vet visit. But if your hamster is not quite saying this yet, give her the benefit of the doubt and get those carbs on the go. ;) Little and often to begin with. Natural sugars in her own diet are fine, just avoid anything manufactured or with `added` sugars.

Some dwarf hamsters are very prone to developing diabetes even with the best intentions, so do what you can and see if she picks up any over the next week. If she deteriorates, then you have every right to help her on her way peacefully. x

[cypher]

Do you have a link to that article RH? I know a fair bit about hight fat diets & weight loss in humans but not hamsters & I'm a bit curious to see what they say.
Generally managing diabetes in hams requires a diet high in protein & fibre with moderate levels of complex carbohydrates & fats.
If I remember things right the problem with little Chiela is that she's never had much of an appetite, maybe because she's always been unwell, changing to foods that probably smell a bit more appetising than the Burgess seemed to give her a bit of a boost for a little while but then she began eating less again so I'm not sure any dietary changes will help all that much.

[racinghamster]

I`m sure I read it on a Syrian hamster breeder`s website but I was meaning more to put on weight than the treating the diabetes itself, so apologies if I got a little confused there. Your right about the protein and fibre being the best route cypher. The carbs I mentioned were more for putting on weight if a hamster has too many nuts and seeds and still isn`t putting weight on. I will try and post an edit of what the article said if I can find it again. x

[racinghamster]

Here you go:

[cypher]

Ummm link as in click & go there?! ;)
Or the name of the site would be helpful so I can google it.

[racinghamster]

It a website called Hammy World who specialise in breeding Syrians. x

[cypher]

Thanks, I found it now.
What they're saying really is very similar to what happens with humans on a high fat, very low carb diet, I'm sure it could be a cause for weight loss if a ham was fed a large amount of high fat seeds or nuts & not a lot else but most get quite a lot of carbs in their diet, mix & treats, so I would imagine it's really quite rare.

[racinghamster]

It`s a tricky one really dealing with weight loss due to illness and the illness itself that needs balance. Weight loss on it`s own can usually be helped by changing the diet and adding more to it, but dealing with diabetes at the same time can`t be easy. I would look to strike a balance between foods that are necessary and cut out anything I felt wasn`t helpful. x

[Chiela]

Sorry I didn't reply before now.

Chiela is already on a sugar free diet as I knew that campbells are prone to diabetes. And I already changed her diet 3 times. Cypher actually describes the problem really well.the problem with little Chiela is that she's never had much of an appetite, maybe because she's always been unwell, changing to foods that probably smell a bit more appetising than the Burgess seemed to give her a bit of a boost for a little while but then she began eating less again.
RH> You referred to especially hamsters that eat to many sunflower seeds and nuts. But even this she will usually not eat that much of, for example has she had a hazelnut in her house and two half peanuts in her food bowl for two weeks now, and they are not touched at all (I have of course change the food in her food bowl, but she has got fresh nuts in every time).

I took her to one vet who referred me to another vet that they work closely together with. The second vet knew that the first one had already ruled out everything he could thing of, so he asked me a bunch of questions with less known symptoms. In the end he figured it could pretty much only be type 1 diabetes, which cannot be treated. Usually I woud have questioned this, but this vet has a huge knowledge when it comes to exotic pets. Very well educated both in my country and overseas.

To make sure I will bring her to the vet on monday, if she will make through the weekend. Of course I would want her to survive, but not at all costs. I do think there is a limit to what you should drag your pets through. I believe I tried really hard, but as she has started to make sounds that clearly indicate she is in pain, I think enough is enough, and that it would be really selfish of me to drag her through more.

But I thank you for the input.

[racinghamster]

You know her best Chiela and I always base their quality of life on whether they are still happy to eat/drink, get around and not actually look as though they are ill. Even in old age, hamsters will doddle on at their own pace, but when they stop eating altogether and act and look frail and you get than gut instinct that they are only 24 hours from passing, they usually are.

If she still eats and drinks then those are good signs, but by your description of her body shape and well being, she could be suffering from a deteriorating illness. With diabetes, a hamster will usually drink it`s bottle dry within a few hours, pee a lot and go through mood changes. It`s impossible to say if the vets you saw gave you an actual diagnosis without actually testing for it. If her symptoms are merely mass weight loss yet she`s not got the typical signs of having diabetes, it could be another illness altogether. x

[Chiela]

You know her best Chiela and I always base their quality of life on whether they are still happy to eat/drink, get around and not actually look as though they are ill. Even in old age, hamsters will doddle on at their own pace, but when they stop eating altogether and act and look frail and you get than gut instinct that they are only 24 hours from passing, they usually are.

I couldn't agree more. I breed guinea pigs a couple of years back, and they have the same behavior. Prey animals will never show weakness, if they can avoid it, so we have to know our animals and their behavior very well.


If she still eats and drinks then those are good signs, but by your description of her body shape and well being, she could be suffering from a deteriorating illness. With diabetes, a hamster will usually drink it`s bottle dry within a few hours, pee a lot and go through mood changes. It`s impossible to say if the vets you saw gave you an actual diagnosis without actually testing for it. If her symptoms are merely mass weight loss yet she`s not got the typical signs of having diabetes, it could be another illness altogether. x
Yes I agree, that is why I take her to the specialized vet tomorrow, to make them look at her one more time, before taking the final decision.
And yes those are the normal symptoms, but there are some symptoms not as well known, and some hamsters that -exactly like humans- don't react like most.
I am not saying you are not right. But I know this vet and he is really very good and highly respected.
However.... no matter what Chiela has (in mind that type 1 diabetes is what we believe until proven otherwise) she is dying from it :( she was always very small and skinny, but it has only been downhill from there.
I have really tried a lot of things, gotten help from Cypher, been reading about diseases in dwarf hamsters, about nutrition, used my experience from the guinea pigs, although they are not the same animal, they are still rodents and so on. The only thing that fits, are the rare symptoms of type 1 diabetes.
I hope to god for other news tomorrow, but honestly i think there is no saving her. :(
But lets pray for good news.

[racinghamster]

If your plan is to let her go tomorrow that`s only a choice you can make. But personally, I always base euthanasia on the animals behaviour and if he or she has definitely given up. Most of mine have all passed at home thankfully and I`ve only had to ask my vet to put one of my Russian dwarfs to sleep due to a sudden onset of rolling over and obvious discomfort. That was a good many years ago though.

I suppose what I`m saying is....is it worth puting her through numerous vet visits if all they can say is it might be this or that? Would it be better to leave her be and then if she suddenly has an acute episode where you know she`s dying or won`t pull through, to make the decision right away? Or do you think it`s better just to do it now? Ha she stopped eating altogether? Are you feeling it`s more a quality of life thing? x

[cypher]

Be thinking of you both tomorrow Chiela.
All you can do is trust your instincts really, you know if you can trust your vet & you'll know if your little one has had enough or not.
Hoping for a some good news but just follow your heart & know you're doing your best for her.

[Penguin]

If your plan is to let her go tomorrow that`s only a choice you can make. But personally, I always base euthanasia on the animals behaviour and if he or she has definitely given up. Most of mine have all passed at home thankfully and I`ve only had to ask my vet to put one of my Russian dwarfs to sleep due to a sudden onset of rolling over and obvious discomfort. That was a good many years ago though.

I suppose what I`m saying is....is it worth puting her through numerous vet visits if all they can say is it might be this or that? Would it be better to leave her be and then if she suddenly has an acute episode where you know she`s dying or won`t pull through, to make the decision right away? Or do you think it`s better just to do it now? Ha she stopped eating altogether? Are you feeling it`s more a quality of life thing? x

Im not trying to be rude, but why is it so bad that she would rather have her poor thing put down than watch it starve and suffer? There is no doubt that it's suffering and i dont really think it's fair to make her doubt whether or not her decision is right

[racinghamster]

I was giving her the benefit of the doubt to be honest Penguin, not suggesting she does not go, just questioning some of the reasons. I can`t visually see the hamster, I`m only going by what the descriptors are like everyone else. Makes me wish I hadn`t intervened now. Everyone has their own ways of dealing with end of life issues and I just wasn`t sure this hamster was thin due to diabetes (hasn`t been positively diagnosed) or other health problems. Did the vet check her teeth/mouth for example? Unless the blood or urine is checked, they are guessing. Doesn`t matter how exotic they are.

All I want to say now is she`s your hamster Chiela and only you can know what state she`s in. Why ask for advice on a forum anyway if two good vets are involved? Surely they are far better placed to give an opinion as they are actually seeing this hamster. For the record, I`m not suggesting Chiela doesn`t act on the best interests of her hamster, but giving a view that if the hamster is not lying prostate in it`s cage dying and can still eat/drink and get about, then it`s always worth consideration.

[racinghamster]

This is what I said. I was asking is it better to leave her alone for a bit or is it better to let her go now. Just choices.