the stupidity of Dave strikes again

[nooboo]

this has been a bad weekend. Last weekend was not good, the two Roborovski who were living together had to be separated, I was so worried as one has a bad leg cut and is still a bit dodgy on one foot. I never thought I could be as scared for one of my hammies as I was then, but I was wrong.



Last night I was in hysterics. We found Si... in Shadow's cage (luckily I don't think she was in season, and it seems killing him was all she had in mind)



Dave thinks he left Si's cage open trying to get him out, when he had Shadow out in a floor ball... we think then Si slipped into her open cage, can't think how else it happened (though shouted at him saying he put them in there together, but I was very upset). He was hiding in her attic. Dave wondered where we gained an extra hamster from, he looks that bad that it took a while to figure out it was him. The bleeding has stopped, the vet is way too far away, it's an emergency vet hospital, and it's outside off Manchester, and they were the only ones willing to deal with a hamster on a Sunday. They agreed that the trip out would be too much, told us to bathe his wounds, and give him honey. We have made sure he has lots of fluid (partially because of blood loss, and because he was without water for a while)



He looks terrible, chunks missing, hair all an odd colour, covered in his own pee... I have cleaned the wounds, but he still looks bad. I don't know what else to do.



If any of you have any tips or advice I would be grateful.



Luckily I am only working two days this week (I worked 6 last week though) thank goodness for my upcoming holiday - so Wednesday onwards he will be cared for by me, Dave is keeping an eye on him at night... well he is sleeping on the sofa in the same room.



Any ideas on what I can do to stop him leaving cages open would be appreciated, or punishments. I am hoarse from shouting and crying as it is.



Shadow has one cut on her nose. We found that before we found Si (at about 6 when I got in from work) and moved her into a tub like the dwarfs have, as we thought she could have got it bar biting in her Rotastack. Poor Si was so scared and hurt he didn't move out of the attic, I hate to think what would have happened if I didn't decide we had to clean out Shadow's cage before we went to sleep.



I have given him some baby porridge, mealworms (dried) normal food, and some honey. The porridge and honey seem to have gone, I just don't know what else to do.

[babyboos]

Oh nooboo how awful for you and poor Si and Shadow. I am really worried for you all, I can't begin to imagine how upset and frustrated you must be with Dave just now. Short of banning him from going anywhere the hamsters which really is not an ideal situation I can't think of anything to say punishment wise. With so many little ones you really need his support, and I am sure want to share your hobby with him. He is a grown man and should know better. I would make him pay out of his own pocket money for Si to be taken to the hospital in a taxi tonight if you feel he is taking a turn for the worse at any point. To allow injuries to happen like this takes time and a lot of noise. These are not toys and maybe the shock of seeing the state they, and you, are in will help him gain some respect for your little furries, I sincerely hope so. I am very glad he is not my boyfriend :twisted: Hugs to you nooboo. I am sending healing thoughts to Si and Shadow.

[nooboo]

thats whats been bothering me, Si must have made a lot of noise, and unless it happened when I went to work and Dave went shopping (which I doubt) ..well they should have been heard.



Dave is worried too... At least he was sensible enough to help me clean Si, and was the one to talk to the emergency vet hospital lot, I was just too far gone.



All of Si's limbs are moving which is better. He just seems to be in pain, he wont put his ears up, and the chunk off his back thigh shows up more and more. The real shock is looking at him, he seems a light brown all over.



While he was sleeping Dave tried to make friends again by getting out the Winter White Russian Dwarf Hamsters and getting some pictres done, and it was nice, it's odd, half of me wants to play with the others get distracted feel better, half of me does not want to be near them and feels Si should have my full attention.



Shadow is a sore point at the moment. Half because she was his hamster, and well it seems so unfair she has barely a scratch and he is a mess. I know though it's not her fault. But I have started to call her "killer", not out of meanness to her, but more because it upsets Dave each time.



The problem seems to be that he opens up cages to get them out, then gets distracted by the computer or something. He has to learn hamsters are quick!! Still he was bitten by Hex today... He grabbed her as she was about to launch herself off the bed... it felt oddly satisfying that one of them got him back.



Si is in a warm, quiet spot. I mixed the honey with the porridge as it seemed a good idea at the time and he is eating it up. Dave is taking tomorrow off University to take him to the vet. Seems a shame that he gets a day off for this. At least he has to explain how he could have let this happen.



I am so worried Si is not going to recover. He is moving fine and eating, but it's like his sparkle has gone, it is heart breaking.

[babyboos]

I hope he is sitting camped on the vet's door when they open in the morning it is the least he can do for the wee guy and he may want to take Shadow too as she could also possibly benefit from antibiotics such as Baytril. Si may also be prescribed Metacalm as an antinflammitory pain relief medication.

[workmad3]

this is the Dave in question, reporting to be shouted at :(



I feel really bad about it, and I can't think how I managed to be so stupid. Just so you all know though, I'm sat next to Si's cage right now, and he is running in his wheel fine and seems to be getting back to normal. I guess that being kept locked in an attic for a day just causes some shock.



He also seems to be getting his spark back as well. Changed him out today, forgot a bung, and his only thought was trying to get into Ponder's cage. Noticed him within a second or two this time, so no harm done, but at least he seems normal.

[babyboos]

If a hamster was brought to the rescue after being in this situation the first thing I would do is take them straight to the vet, whatever the time. I hope you will take them both first thing even if they do look more perky. Hamsters are good at hiding pain and with such fast metabolisms they very quickly go downhill when infection sets in. Pick one entry and exit hole and stick to it sellotape down all other bungs and don't ever use them again. Your hamsters will quickly learn they come to the particular spot they get out, and if you need to chase them along their enclosure to try and catch them it is telling you something - they want to come out right now - so leave them alone - you have plenty others to play with.

[nooboo]

that does not mean you are not taking them to the vet.



remind me to go steal your power cable, I think no internet may be in order tonight for you



yes he was running in his wheel, maybe because he wanted some love and attention, I bet his ears are still back



better get him out and see.

[babyboos]

A scared, frightened and pained hamster will still run on his wheel often in an attempt to try and get away. Wheel running shows stress as well as providing a means of exercise. Remove the wheel and put him in a plain, tissue filled bin for the night and his trip to the vet tomorrow. Some food, water and nothing else should be in with him.



What is quite concerning additionally is that he could have been left in the attic until Sunday when I hope someone would finally have checked his enclosure to say hello to him. We need to be aware of our little ones and check on the daily at least once. I always make sure everyone comes out at food time at least, if they don't I open the enclosure to find out why. I have hamsters of all ages so this is very important in case someone passes over the bridge in their sleep.

[nooboo]

thank babyboos, it's good to have someone else tell him.



I didn't think the wheel would be an issue, as he was sticking to the bottom cage which just had his food water and bed in it. But it seems he decided to go look about a bit. I guess I should move him again.

[babyboos]

Yes move him away to a quiet shady corner in a smallish bin where he is forced to take it easy and recuperate. It isn't cruel you want him to move around as little as possible just now to conserve energy and heal. Make sure it is warm but well ventilated and filled with plenty shredded tissue. Let us know how you get on at the vets tomorrow. Maybe ask about pre and probiotics whilst you are there. Some added to their food or water, depending on what types they have available would be very beneficial right now, and handy to have in the house for future use too.

[Skwee]

I think you are both right Nooboo and Babyboos but I have to say.. I do feel sorry for Dave!!! (the hamster goes without saying)...



Accidents do happen and we all know what little escape artists hamsters are at the best of times!!! and that's without the temptation of a female nearby...



Hope the hammy will be ok :?

[Emma]

I think everythings been said about taking them to the vets and possible treatments etc. Let us know how you get on.



Maybe it'd be worth re-evaluating the type of cages you're using - some types are easier to leave open (e.g. modular types like rotastak with millions of possible exit points) - wheras a type with only 1 or 2 doors would be harder to leave open by mistake, although still possible!

[babyboos]

Excellent idea Emma I would not use Rotastack to begin with but after the amount of mishaps Dave has had I would certainly be looking to get a different set up for all your Syrians. If you are going to keep them for any length of time definitely try taping up all except for one opening per enclosure and only use it from now on.

[babyboos]

Oh and Dave how did it go at the vet - what medications did they receive?

[nooboo]

some pain meds and some anti biotics.. i dont see why but there you go. i think he must have also given the cuts a clean as they seem better, must ask dave more, just so tired right now.



i am leaving it all to dave, in the hopes that it will push the lesson home so unless he gets really stuck its his job. i got home very late today, find i wont be paied enough this month to cover bills and just want to curl up and die.. oh well.



anyway from what dave said the vet seems to think si should be ok. which cheers me up.

[nooboo]

Shadow is now into a tub as I said earlier. I would move more into tubs but I don't have the money, I am surrounded by Rotastak, so using some of it. But to buy new tubs and wheels now when I can't even afford food... he has to learn there is no other way this month, the vets finished up our emergency money

[babyboos]

Oh nooboo for your own peace of mind please sellotape up the access holes, then no more accidents can happen.

[nooboo]

Dave is now only in charge of the storage tubs and Si. The rest I'm taking care of which is going to be extra tiring seeing as I have so much work, but that's life I guess.



It's going to take a while to remember not to ask Dave to get out a hamster for me.

[pophammy]

Oh Nooboo, how traumatic for you. I feel so sorry for you and your hams. You should put Dave in a cage, see how he likes it! :twisted: I'm glad to here that Si and Shadow are feeling better.

[nooboo]

Shadow's acting as if nothing has happened. Except now in her big tub she is dancing on her back legs to get our attention without resting on the side of the container. It's very entertaining. Almost enough to make me forgive her. Only kidding. Also keeping Dave in a cage isn't the problem as all the problems arise from them getting out off cages :( can't exactly say 'see how it feels to not be locked in a cage' now can I ? :wink: :lol: Although I am considering beating him up for entering the bedroom...

[babyboos]

How is Si today? It is alright for Dave to get a hamster out for you but you need to make sure only YOU put it back AND check all the openings :?

[nooboo]

got Si out and gave him a tickle, his ears are back up which is great to see.



He still looks a mess but is acting more normally, luckily the way he looks stops us from believing him and letting him have his wheel back.

[babyboos]

How is he taking his medication? My guys love Baytril with Ocean Spray Low Sugar cranberry juice if you have any problems and they take Metacam straight from the syringe. It is flavoured especially to appeal to our little one's palates :P

[nooboo]

he's looking so much better, his eye cut, the one on his back, and the one on his 'pompoms' are all that are really visible now. The eye cut has hair growing over it again already. We managed to get some photographs while giving him a cuddle. They are not very good quality and Dave reckons one of them makes him look like Godzilla :?



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/nooboo/injured_si3.jpg



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/nooboo/injured_si2.jpg



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/nooboo/injured_si.jpg

[pophammy]

Poor wee guy, he has been through the wars but hopefully is on the mend now. Keep him safe Dave and let this be a lesson. How would you like a great gash in the pompoms!!!!!!!! :oops:

[babyboos]

Indeed :oops: :wink:

[Skwee]

ooooh is that what the first picture is :oops: I couldn't work it out :lol: I see now... poor wee mite.

[nooboo]

nah first is the back leg...



I don't think anyone will be able to see the pompom picture without shuddering. Dave's eyes still well up when he sees it, it's more like a graze on his left hand one, so a reasonable sized scab. His fur is looking better, and the cuts seem smaller, so I think some swelling has gone down. He seems happier in himself, which is great to see.

[babyboos]

Great to hear :wink:

Keep it up Si you little fighter

What medication did he receive, and what dosage?

[nooboo]

:oops: have to ask dave that but what ever it is its sure helping!



he is all ears up happy, and even doing his little cage dances to get out for cuddles!!



i know its bad i dont know about the meds, but to a certain extent i didnt want to, i just want to leave dave to it, its all too upsetting for me. all i do is blame myself for not checking etc everytime i see him or try to help otu.



the fact we had to give him medication upsets me even more.



not sure if that makes sense.

[nooboo]

Dave thinks it's 0.2ml of Baytril twice a day... I thought there was pain medication too but supposedly that was given at the vets and he didn't think there would be a need for more.



This has me worried.. should I take him back to the vets??? wondering if Dave really could be trusted with even that job

[babyboos]

No he may just have been given Baytril to stave off infection, and a pain medication injection in the surgery, or even an injection of anti-biotic just in the surgery... If I had been there the poor vet would have been quizzed as to what he thought, what he was doing /giving etc... Best try to get along yourself next time, although often I will phone the vet and he will tell me what he has done to my little one that day if I have to let my other half Jules take one in on my behalf. Although he has learned to ask lots of questions now :wink:

The quantity should be written on the bottle and the dosage is important so make sure he is doing it right nooboo.

What did the vet say? Did they ask to see him again in 10 days or so?

[nooboo]

No 5 days of medications and if Si did not perk up then to see him again, oh and he said to watch out for absesses... at least that's what Dave thinks he said, but the vet felt that the antibiotics should prevent them, but to watch out incase



I think I would have been struck dumb at the vet surgery too though, it was so scary when we first found him, you find yourself just nodding along to anything without question.



but in future I think I do need to go as well, just so between us we can have a full recollection

[Emma]

It sounds like the vet did what I would have done. Do you have the receipt - it may say exactly what was given?



Sounds like he had pain meds at the time (probably something like Metacam by injection) and then a course of antibiotics to stave off any infection. 5 days is pretty much minimum course - any less and there is little point. As for dosage - if you can tell us (a) Si's weight and (b) if the Baytril is diluted or not (should say on the bottle if it is) then we can work out if the dosage is correct. It sounds about right to me though.



I agree with your vet that he doesn't need to go back unless he's not better or gets worse - if he gets better then there's no need to stress him out with another trip.



I don't know if it's been mentioned because this thread is quite long now - but probiotics are a good idea whilst he's on Baytril and for a short while after. I use AviPro Plus which is available online here http://www.noahs-cupboard.co.uk with fairly prompt delivery, or your vet might stock it.

[nooboo]

Si is about 80g



I was thinking of trying to see if I can find some probiotics when we are up in Newcastle, Dave's mum has found a few well stoked pet places!! If we can't then I will order some in. He looks up to the travel, so least I am less worried about that. So if you don't hear anything from me for a few days just remember that I will be back Sunday, unless I find time to post while up there!



Dave is not helping my worries at leaving the others till Sunday... his comment today was 'do you think Shadow is getting fat?' Though I am sure she was not on heat, and she only seemed to want to kill Si... then again it's only been 4 days or something since they may have first discovered each other, I think he is trying to spook me :?