Advice on WW Adoption Please!!

[Leila0420]

Hi everyone :) So about 2 weeks ago I saw an advert on gumtree by a girl trying to sell 1 of a pair of winter whites she'd bought together as they'd started fighting badly. In the photos she'd posted they were in an unsuitable cage that was too small and with too many levels etc. for them to get territorial over... So I got in touch with her, offered her advice about the cage and said she could have an old zoozone 2 of mine so she could separate them before they did each other any damage. When I dropped off the cage one of the little ones had a tiny cut on it's nose and was very very timid, she would get within 10cm of the other girl, realise she was there and then run away as fast as she could.
After I gave their owner the cage I stayed a few hours chatting with her and they both settled down into their new separate homes. I genuinely thought it was resolved and they'd have a nice long happy life with their owner but then today I saw an advert by her on gumtree offering them both up for sale... So I got in touch and apparently her landlord wont let her keep them.

So, essentially my question is should I adopt them or not? I got on really well with their current owner so it might be nice for her to come visit them etc. and I can try and teach her a bit more about how to look after them properly. Plus I do feel very emotionally attached to them and in a selfish way it would be nice to have my zoozone back... I already have a Syrian and was planning on adopting another hamster in the next month or so but I'm not sure if I have time for an additional 2. I currently work full time (but may drop my hours so I can study part time from September) and I've never had to look after that many pets before aside from a couple of weeks here and there as a teenager hamsitting for my friends. But I really want to do what's best for the hamsters.

I'm really stuck guys, any advice would be much appreciated!
Thank you :)

[cypher]

That is a bit of a tough one, I can imagine now you've met them (& given them a cage, that was really kind of you) you probably do already feel a bit attached to them & really want to give them a good home.
I'd try to evaluate just how much time (& space!) you have to spare, basic needs aren't that much more time consuming with 3 than with 1 but I find it's out of cage time, especially when they all want attention at once which can be a bit difficult.
If you think you could manage it then go for it.

[Leila0420]

Well I'm moving in with my boyfriend in a week and a half so we'll have enough space and I'd probably get the girl that's still in the small cage a detolf...
But it's definitely out of cage time that I'm worried about. I'm not a big fan of hamster balls (mainly cos they seem to enjoy sniffing around and trying to climb things so much which they cant do in a ball) but I suppose if I got the 2 little girls 1 each then me and my bf could each watch them separately and they could zoom around in different rooms for a while everyday? Then I wont have to worry about making 3 playpens or sectioning off 3 different areas for freerunning maybe?

[Pebbles82]

Have they already been separated Leila? If so maybe you could take one and find a home for the other one? Otherwise, it's a tough one - but it sounds like you are aware of how much extra time and space is going to be needed.

[cypher]

I really don't recommend balls for dwarf hams, their little feet can get easily injured in them , my first ham hated the ball & I haven't used them since I tried it with him, I know some people do but I really think playpens are a much better option for dwarfs.

[Leila0420]

Oh I didn't know that about balls Cypher! That's terrible :(
Yes they're already separated. I think if I did take 1 I'd go for the little timid one that got bitten because honestly she's the one that stole my heart. But then if I took her in my zoozone then that leaves the other girl in a tiny cage and I'm just worried that her next owner wouldn't give her more space which would be terrible.
My original plan was to get a dwarf to keep in the spare room that my bf and I will use to study in. It currently has nothing in it and would be a perfect free running room. So maybe having 2 of them, with 1.5/2 hours free running each night would actually force me into studying 3/4 hours each day? Although would free running in the same space be good for them? I presume they'd both be scent marking all over the place. Would that stress the little timid girl out?

[cypher]

I'd feel exactly the same about just taking one, I'd probably never stop worrying about the other being kept in tiny cage & not cared for!
I like your idea for using the study as a play area, the timid one may get scared by the scent of the other having already been bullied but especially as she's a timid one maybe you could make her a smaller playpen, a big cardboard box will do or pieces of card taped together, they can't climb out of things as easily as syrians! A smaller area with toys to explore & little hideout places might just suit her better.
As long as they have good wheels they'll get plenty of exercise in the cage so I tend to think of time out as a time to interact with them & handle them (if they like that) as much as an exercise/play time.
They don't really need that much out of cage time & even if what you can give them is a bit limited they are still going to be having a much better life so maybe that's the way to look at it?

[kyrilliondaemon]

Would you be able to get them both with a plan of rehoming one if you did find it hard to make the time for them both?

[racinghamster]

Leila, the others have given some great advice and pointers. I just wanted to say, dwarf hamsters are easy to care for. My current lad (Russian hybrid) lives in a Gabber Rex tank (same as a Zoozone 1) and he sleeps all day in his big tissue box! I wouldn't worry too much about having lots of time to play with them all. If they have a decent cage, a good wheel and a cosy bed, you don`t have anything to worry about. They would be in a better home with you and as kyrill said, if you felt you could find a better home for one of them yourself knowing it would be in good hands (like yourself) then go for it.

It`s great that they have been separated. f you have the space, you have nothing to lose and much to gain. Being on Gumtree they could end up as kids pets. :(

Even if you just took the wee one you fell for, you don`t have to feel guilty over the one you didn`t take. A Zoozone 2 is massive! So he/she will have a ball in there! x

[Leila0420]

Thanks everyone. Kyrill, I think that's definitely an option. I'm not passing judgement on their current owner at all because she really cares for them but just doesn't have much experience and they're not in an ideal situation... At the moment the girl in the zoozone has no wheel or toys just a food bowl and a water bowl not a bottle, and the girl in the smaller cage barely gets handled because she's just so timid. So I think I'll probably take them both at first, get them sorted with decent toys and nice big homes and then if I really cant cope then see if anyone here on HC could offer one of them more love.

Cypher, I think the idea for a small play pen for the timid girl would be great. I think she's gona take a bit of care and attention to get her used to people. The other girl is more sociable so if I did need to re-home one of them I think she'd make any owner happy.

Racing hamster I think sleeping all day in a big tissue box house sounds lovely! I wish I could do that haha :) In the past I've had 2 Russians, WW and Campbells (sold to me together which was appalling in retrospect, they were obviously not related) but this was when I was younger so it's been a while...

[kyrilliondaemon]

Then I definetly vote you do get both at first and go from there :D

[cypher]

I'll second that :)

[Leila0420]

2 votes get them? Motion passed! I'll get in touch with their current owner... (Almost like fate, I've just seen 3 detolfs on gumtree posted 1 hour ago near my house!!)

Btw which wheels are good for dwarfs? (Presume 15-20cm diameter?)
Would it be good to give them a stone as well as a sandbath?

[cypher]

Sounds as though fate is on your side, & theirs! :)
When you say put a stone in do you mean to help with their claws? I give mine unglazed terracotta pots to dig around in but it seems to work better with some than others tbh.

ETA I forgot the bit about wheels!
They seem to be a bit of a problem at the moment, the 6.5" silent spinner was a really good choice for them but the new design doesn't seem to spin very well, I use the 20cm karlie wonderland wheel but quality seems to have gone downhill, they do need plastikoting to make them pee proof & a good check before use for any splinters or rough edges, I do think splinters are rare but definitely something to check for. The 20cm trixie wheel is good for them too but I found mine so noisy I binned them, some people seem happy with them though.
Sorry if that gives you more questions than answers to what seems like a simple question to begin with!

[racinghamster]

let us know how you get on Leila, you have a good heart. And remember, don`t get too stressed about them. They entertain themselves! x

[Leila0420]

I think I'm picking them up on Saturday. The owner said yes but hasn't clarified when or what time yet...
I'm picking up a detolf on Thursday, made a bid for a zoozone 2 on eBay just in case too and have 2 wheels, 2 water bottles and a few toys ordered. I'll let you all know this weekend if it goes to plan!

[RubyDG]

I'm glad you've decided to get them :). At least they'll be properly looked after with you and that should give their current owner some peace of mind too. Since the person you are getting your Detolf from for such a bargain price has more than 1 for sale and you're collecting it anyway I suggest getting a second one and storing it. They flat pack so should store easily and you just never know ;).

[kyrilliondaemon]

I'm glad you're getting them both :D It sounds like you're getting well prepared too

[cypher]

That's great to hear, sounds like they are going to be two well spoilt hams once you get them!

[Leila0420]

Thanks everyone! I'm actually really nervous about it. I'm terrified that I'll try and contact their current owner to pick them up and that she'll have given then to someone else... I think it's completely irrational but I'm counting down the days until they're with me. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links but this is them: 2 dwarf hamsters with all their food and accessories + two seperate cages | United Kingdom | Gumtree (http://www.gumtree.com/p/hamsters/2-dwarf-hamsters-with-all-their-food-and-accessories-two-seperate-cages/1115260942)
Thanks RubyDG, I did think I should get 2 detolfs... I'm still undecided. I've also just bought a second hand expedit so I'm planning a lot of hammy DIY in the next few weeks :)

Oh and my bid for the zoozone 2 won too so I think they'll both be in zoozones for a few months until they settle in.

[Scarlett Empress]

I'm crossing my fingers for you that all will go well with picking them up, I think they will be very lucky to come and live with you!

[Leila0420]

Thank you Scarlett Empress! Only 2 days left to go... ><;

[cypher]

It must seem like a long 2 days! I'm keeping my fingers crossed all goes to plan too!

[Leila0420]

Thank you Cypher!!!

[Leila0420]

Hi everyone, I have been in contact with the hamsters current owner and they are still available to be picked up today BUT I have a fairly complicated problem...

Basically I am meant to be moving house this Thursday. The property belongs to me however I rented it out for 6 months as I was assigned to work abroad for a few months by my company and could not afford to leave it empty during the time that I was away (there was also a risk that the term abroad could be extended). I am currently having issues with my tenants and it seems like they may refuse to leave the property at the end of the contract.

I am currently staying at my parents house in the meantime and they have said that they will not allow me to keep more than one pet while I am in their house. They're away this week so I was going to be underhand and keep the hamsters here until the move on Thursday. I don't know whether to risk getting the hamsters today with the possibility that I cannot gain access to my house or to wait another week by which point I will know whether or not the tenants are still in my house.

Rationally it's probably safer to wait until next week and it will probably be a stressful week in general. I have a zoozone 2 now prepared for the girl in the small cage and lots of toys and a water bottle etc. prepared for the girl in the cage with no toys so worst case I could take all of these over to their current owner and make sure they're both in suitable environments until I get them next week... But gut instinct says to get them today and make sure they are clean, safe and healthy.

What do you think?? And sorry for the long slightly personal post too...

[cypher]

What happens at the end of the week if you're still having problems with the tenants & can't move into the house? Do your parents might change their minds if you explain to them about the adoption & that the hams are at risk if you don't take them, maybe they'd change their minds if there is actually room for you to keep them at your parents.
It's not an easy decision, I know I'd be wanting to just go & get them now but if you think it's going to be stressful for both you & them then it may be better to wait.
I guess it partly depends on how much you feel you can trust the girl who has them, would she take proper care of them for a bit longer or not do you think?

[Leila0420]

If the tenants aren't out by the end of the week then I will have to take them to court which will take time. Fortunately I have a friend who's a solicitor who's been supporting me through this and he's been helping me explain to the tenants what this will entail so hopefully they will see sense...

I'm honestly not sure about their current owner. I know she cares about them but she's inexperienced and has a tendency to brush aside advice. She doesn't empty out their food bowls and just keeps piling it up on top. When I gave her my cage the first time so she could separate them the food in their food bowl was really wet for some reason which worries me a lot. I'm not sure if she's been cleaning their cages or changing their water daily and they have very little substrate for digging in...

My mum wouldn't mind in theory but 3 100x50cm cages would push her limits. My dad would get angry. I have mentioned it to them before and they got upset and said their worried that I'd be taking on too much responsibility.

My bf cant take them because if we cant get into the house on Thursday he's going to have to move in with his parents too. I have 2 friends I could ask to foster them while I'm waiting though, that's an option actually.

[Leila0420]

OK first of all I'm really sorry for my earlier posts, I think I've just been a bit stressed about the housing issue and it wasn't really fair on you all for me to post about it on here.

One of my friends is fostering the two dwarfs for me until I can move into my house, however long that may take. So this afternoon we went to get them. They are both settled into a zoozone 2 each. The timid girl was very excited at first and even voluntarily climbed onto my hand but then got stressed. The bite on her face from the last time I saw them has healed well. She wasn't named by her owner. The more aggressive girl is actually incredibly friendly with humans, her name is Haneen. I added an inch of substrate to her cage (as she was already in the zoozone, lots of toys, a food bowl and a water bowl)... She got a bit annoyed about us tampering with her territory.

They seem really healthy but their owner was using cotton fluff bedding and Haneen had a metal wheel with bars across. The timid girl had never been cleaned and had piles and piles of old food in her cage which she had been peeing on.

Were gona give them a good few days to settle in. I'll let you know how they get on.
Again, I'm sorry about my last post and thank you all for the support towards getting these two.

[cypher]

I'm glad you managed to resolved the problem & the girls are now at the start of a great new life, keep us posted & let us know how they go.

[Leila0420]

Hi everyone, it's been a while but I thought I'd let you know that the dwarves are doing fine. The timid one is now called Dina, still timid (runs away from everything!!) but still happy to walk onto your hand. The aggressive one Haneen has become quite territorial but happy to play out of the cage. And... They're little boys not girls :)
I'm going to set up a thread and post some photos. I've also come clean to my parents. I'm far too old for secrecy and am pretty ashamed for not telling them.

[cypher]

Sounds as though it's going really well with the little guys, look forward to hearing more about them & seeing some photos :)
Well done for 'fessing up to your parents, you can't really hide 2 hamsters anyway, or can you?!

[Leila0420]

Thanks Cypher and that's very true! They're far too energetic for hiding, and I get the feeling the matching giant cages would give it away...

[kyrilliondaemon]

I've just caught up with this and am glad its sort of worked out ok in the end :)

Did you get to move back to your house in the end or did the tenants refuse to leave as you'd feared?

[Leila0420]

Thanks kyrillion :)

Um my tenants haven't left... I've issued another notice for them to leave by the 29th under a stricter section of the housing act but if they're not out by then it'll have to go to court. I'm not really sure how it came to this. They didn't try to negotiate extending the lease, just told me one week before the contract ended that they weren't going to leave :(

[kyrilliondaemon]

I'm sorry to read that :( Its really bad that they're refusing to leave. Are they at least still paying you rent for the extra time there? I hope they're out by the 29th for you so that you can go home and get your new hams back and stuff

[Scarlett Empress]

So sorry you aren't able to get back into your own property yet :( hope it can be resolved without too much hassle for you.

I'm glad to hear the two little hammies are safe and well, I think you did the best thing by making sure you got them out of their previous home as soon as you could!

[herbi7]

How very strange that only one of them had a name! Almost like the other one was an embarrassment. So glad they are settling in nicely. Hope the housing stuff works out ok

[Leila0420]

Thanks Kyrillion, Scarlett and Herbi :) My tenants are still paying rent (well I received 1 weeks rent after the lease ended so hopefully that's a sign they're planning on leaving soon). They've been difficult throughout but I think it's just a case that they haven't found anywhere else yet (despite having 2 months notice... :( )

I actually picked up the dwarves from my friend last night. I told my parents and they're begrudgingly allowing it for the mean time. It means I've been able to monitor them better... Haneen is a little bit snuffly this morning which I'm slightly worried about and glad I can now monitor at home, he's still energetic and a lot less nibbley and territorial (he squeaks in his sleep too which is really cute). And despite Dina being so skittish he actually doesn't seem to have minded moving house twice in the past two weeks...

Herbi I think it was a case that Dina was a disappointment actually. When I got them last weekend their original owner was really sad to see Haneen go but when I got Dina's cage she was like 'yeah you can have that one, he's boring, he has no interest in me' :( ...He's not boring, he's the gentle and sweet!

[kyrilliondaemon]

I'm glad they are still paying rent and I hope they move out soon.

I'm glad you've got the dwarf hams with you now, I hope Haneen stops the snuffling soon. Its a shame Dina was a disappointment to the last owner :(

[Leila0420]

Thanks Kyrillion :) Haneen seems to be fine today, I think I might just be being a wee bit of a hypochondriac because I feel guilty for having moved them around so much recently.
It is a shame about Dina, I get the feeling that it happens a lot with hamsters that are more nervous by nature though... I really do love him for his shyness although he's getting more confident now. I introduced him to my mum last night and he didn't seem to mind the new person smell. I've invited their last owner to come for dinner when I finally get back into my house and plan on showing her exactly how gorgeous Dina is now after just a little bit of patience :)

[kyrilliondaemon]

Thats really good news :) I hope the old owner does realise how brilliant Dina is when she sees him again :)

[Leila0420]

Thanks Kyrillion, me too! :)