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View Full Version : I feel like a monster.


nooboo
09-30-2005, 01:23 PM
We had a bad hamster escape, about 18 days back. Two got free, but were found quickly (well that's what Dave said as they always run into the bedroom to find him on the computer). He has a nasty habit of getting the hamsters out, by opening two or three roof bits on their Rotastaks, and when putting them back only closing the one they went back into. Don't worry he is sulking in the bathroom for the lecture I just gave him.



I thought nothing of it at all. I did get slightly worried a week back when I realised he meant Si (male) and Ponder (the small one of my two girls). He said they were found in different rooms, and were not out long. 16 days comes and goes and I stop worrying. Ponder didn't seem fatter or anything, and more friendly than ever! Her coat was adorably soft too, so I couldn't help but play with her the last few days.



You can guess what is coming.



So today I come home from work, and Ponder is acting odd. Her cage has been altered (she swapped where she usually sleeps). I check on her food and its a little low, so I give her some more, she comes out of her bed to see me. I give her a cuddle, pop her in her ball and go to move her nesting stuff to the back end (it's very near the water bottle, I was worried she would get it and her all wet). I find three little pink things. I quickly take Ponder out of her floor ball and put her back in her cgae. I scrambled up an egg, and put it in a dish with bread soaked in cats milk(after Dave was ordered to get some suitable milk immediately).



I have enough cages to cope easily. I just feel like a monster, at least she was on extra protein for being small. I bought the Roborovski as I wouldn't be having a baby Syrian to keep in a hurry. I am all flustered. What's worse is I leave tomorrow at 11am and don't get back till 7pm Sunday. It is Dave's gran's birthday, so we have to travel and stay with his dad and step mum. I half think that if I leave lots of food and water it will be a good thing, nice quiet flat, no noise, but half worried that I should be here. Tickets can't be refunded but if it's best I will stay and send Dave alone. I can't beliieve this happened. What a terrible owner I am! Ponder is so small as it is, this must have caused her many problems, I just feel worried and really really bad right now, and wouldn't mind some advice. Should I stay or go?

Emma
10-03-2005, 07:30 AM
I'm sorry you didn't get a reply on the forum nooboo, it was posted that both Candace and I were away all weekend.



What has happened with Ponder's litter, what did you decide to do? I will leave my hamsters overnight sometimes (never longer though) and feel that is fine, however I wouldn't have left Ponder until I was sure she had finished giving birth in case there had been any complications. After that as you say peace & quiet may not have been a bad thing.



Remember though that hamsters are quite prone to cannibalism of young and especially with a first litter, young mother (I think Ponder is quite young?), and being disturbed during giving birth it sounds like, although of course you weren't to know, don't blame yourself if the worse happens.



How long after the escape did she give birth?



Hope everything is ok.

nooboo
10-03-2005, 08:58 AM
18 days after the escape. Which seems too long isn't it? It's all so confusing.



She had seemed to have finished giving birth and I went away. rather begrugingly. I left her with three bowls of food, don't ask I was worried. When we got back in yesterday she ran up to greet us and came out of her cage when we tried to change the food. She had left the babies uncovered I could only see two, I hope the other one is ok and was just more burried. Do you think the small litter size might be because they didn't have long together?? Ponder is still quite young and very small but must be getting near 4 months old now.



I have been giving her some cat milk soaked bread, and, chicken and vegetable baby food, is this good or bad? She also had some plain chicken breast when we got in yesterday. I just feel terrible, it was the one that I in no way would have wanted this for. She is so small, and to be honest, does not seem to be doing a good job. She tries to get out everytime we change the food, and does not wish to go back in, spends more of her time away from them than with them, it's really getting worrying.

pophammy
10-03-2005, 09:09 AM
The small litter size is probably because she is young, small and inexperienced. She may have had more and lost them or then again she may just have had the three. I do not think the length of time together has much to do with it. The babies may have been born slightly before you saw them so the timing would seem OK, The key is to leave this mum in peace. I would not be offering her the chance to come out at all at the moment. Put her in a quiet room, cover the cage and only go in when you need to check her food. Feed good quality protein, maybe some lactol if you have any and leave her be for another week. Hopefully she will settle and raise the babes. Good luck Ponder and try hard.

nooboo
10-03-2005, 09:18 AM
biggest problem is as soon as I open the cage to get her bowl she is there climbing out. Would it be best to over fill the bowl and change food once every other day instead?



I am worried she may have eaten a lot of her young, but the day before she gave birth she was still slim, luckily the very day before I cleaned out their cages, though it did mean that she may have got into a newly cleaned cage and given birth straight away. Dave is now not allowed to take the hamsters out unless I can be there to see him put them back. He left the Roborovski cage open last night. Luckily they were way too small and had nothing to climb on, when will he learn!

pophammy
10-03-2005, 09:34 AM
No I would still feed once a day as you need to change the fresh food. She probably only had the three if she was slim so do not worry over what has been and gone and what if? Do your best for her now and support her. It is hard but if she climbs out put her back in. It's only for ten days or so and the lives of the babies depend on her now. The food sounds fine as long as it has no onion in it. Can you see if the babies are still there? If they are it is hopeful as long as you do not disturb the family any more than you need to.

Emma
10-03-2005, 10:06 AM
They can go that long, day 18 is the limit at which I'd think about giving drugs to help things along.



Just do the best you can and see how it goes - 3 is a very small litter, but probably for the reasons already discussed, and she may have cannibalised a few. Fingers crossed for the little ones.

nooboo
10-03-2005, 10:21 AM
Whenever I go to the kitchen or loo I see her there in her cage in the living room, just sat at the other end. Maybe she is just wanting some time out from them, I wont let her out no matter how much she begs then, and I have banned dave from the living room computer, which means we are now fighting over the bedroom one. Better start posting nice things about him!



I wonder if she will eat some scrambled egg on milk soaked bread. Better go scramble one so it's got time to cool. They like to all be fed at a certain time, well, usually that's after I get in from work, but Dave gave me fresher flu, never live with a student!



I will have to leave him to sort them out I don't want to sneeze near them, let's hope he has learnt to close cages

pophammy
10-03-2005, 10:39 AM
It is not really normal for a mother to want time out from such a young litter. Instinct normally keeps them with their young. Are they definitely still alive and she is not avoiding the nest because the young are dead. I would try and check without touching the babies. Can you use a stick or pencil (cleaned off scent) to move the bedding? If they are alive, if possible cover the cage. The living room is a bit busy and noisy for a new mum but if it is the only place try and shelter her behind the sofa or something.

nooboo
10-03-2005, 11:35 AM
The nest was moving earlier. The living room is ok, as there is only Dave and I here, and we are sticking to the bedroom, we only walk past it when going to the kitchen or bathroom, and she is right at the back of the living room. You can just see her cage from the door, and at the moment, her at in her food bowl pawing at the side according to Dave (he just went to the loo, not that you needed to know :P )



We are going to get takeout, so there is no more running to the kitchen, (any excuse) and we are reading so there is not even any noise in the bedroom.



She has also taken to staring at the Robos in their cage, but as they are at least a foot away she shouldn't be able to see them should she?

pophammy
10-03-2005, 02:14 PM
Sounds like you are doing everything you can and if the nest is moving she is looking after the little ones even if you think she is not! Fingers crossed and get yourself some sleep and don't worry. What will be will be.

babyboos
10-03-2005, 03:19 PM
How dreadful for you and to have the cold on top of this too :cry: See if you can get some porridge oats, or Ready Brek Original at the shops and place a tablespoonful made up with soya, or better still kitten replacement formula milk (Sherley's Lactol is good), in an empty coffee or jam jar lid for her. Even if she does beg she needs to be there for them constantly for the first few days. Let her come out for a cuddle when you feel better at the end of this week, and maybe think of how you can rearrange her setup so that they can all access the water bottle and not fall down any tubes. You haven't said where she had the babies? Is she in the main kidney shaped part of the Rotastak? Other than that you will just need to let nature take its course and cross your fingers and toes. Frustrating I know. Can you move the Roborovski to the bedroom for now? As a new mum she may be sensing them and stressing her a little.

nooboo
10-03-2005, 11:41 PM
they are in a kidney shaped one it was a bottom one, when i let her out and we discovered the babies we took the 3 rounds on top of it off the lid, and the rounds off the one round connected to it by a tube at the deeper end. she had them at the thinner end wmhere i always put waterbottlo and food bowl (i do tho same layout in that respect width each hamster, the thin end of the syrians kidneys is for food and water. she has moved the nest to the back, so nearer the thickjer bit where there is a tube horazontally through to now a single roundthat rond has now no floor space,it had her sand bath in which nshe has only just started using as a loo, a food bowl of dried food, and a shallow one for milked bread, baby food, ncrambled egg etc, oh and a nut honey stick too. the bmabies could get into the tube to the round only if she moves hor bodding, at the moment its all pled at the back against the oposnite wall to the tube, xut if she moves it forward i can see how they could then reach up to it to crawl along it she has the water bottle and another dried food bowl at the front of the kidney where the lid lifts easy.



must convince dave to move the noisyest hamsters into the bedroom. :P

pophammy
10-04-2005, 12:52 AM
Why don't you put the noisy guys in the bath on top of a towel overnight or in the hall so you get some sleep. I'm sure they will be fine and it's only for a little while anyway. Everyone must be a little giving at this time for Ponders sake. Hope she's OK. She is probably doing better than you think and it is just because you keep looking at her that you see every little change.

nooboo
10-04-2005, 01:09 AM
it does not help that I am not thinking straight I feel so ill, Dave says we can have the Roborovski in here if he can take away one of their cages that has the internal wheel in, the external one is fine but the internal one is a bit noisy



luckily Dave only has a few hours of university today so he can be my slave!

pophammy
10-04-2005, 06:47 AM
Poor you. Is it a fever or a coldy type flu. Best to just curl up in bed and leave Ponder well fed to get on with her motherly duties. You don't want to risk infecting any of the hams. As I suggested best not have the robos in with you in case. It's the bathroom, hall or big cupboard for them for now or even the other end of the living room. They'll be fine.

nooboo
10-09-2005, 11:49 AM
I managed to get some pictures, with a cleverly positioned light, and because Ponder refused to go back in without being out for a bit. They are now 9 days old I think



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/baby.jpg



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/babies.jpg

pophammy
10-09-2005, 12:45 PM
Ahh, they are gorgeous and well done Ponder!!! I think they will be either golden black or sable bands. What colour was dad?

nooboo
10-09-2005, 01:25 PM
silver grey i think

the colours of mum and dad are a guess, but i can post pics of them if it helps ;)

babyboos
10-09-2005, 04:34 PM
Did you not ask what colour Si was when you picked him up?

nooboo
10-09-2005, 04:40 PM
dave picked up si and forgot to ask (yeah hes really doing well at the minute isnt he) we emailed the guy to get a bit of the information as you probably recall and they refused to tell us any of their colours or history



its about then i wished i'd never used that breeder, considering dave had only just picked si up its not like he could say he couldnt remember they just stopped responding to us after stressing they do not like discussing that kind of information. personally i wonder if they really knew what they were dealing with



most people who have seen the pics seem to think he is a silver gray, i just wish i had a way of getting up to one of the shows to get some expert opinion in person

babyboos
10-09-2005, 04:48 PM
I remember he wouldn't speak to you about the girls, what a shame I thought you at least knew what Si was. Can you get the train to Sheffield? There are shows there this saturday coming and the one after. Or even get a loan of a camera from a friend and try and take some more pictures of them all?

nooboo
10-09-2005, 04:51 PM
train is rather costly, is the show near the train station too??



pictures i can do easily, one sec while i quily host some from today

PJ
10-09-2005, 05:03 PM
I do know my greys so I'll have a look when I come down which should be this side of xmas with your campbells lol.

nooboo
10-09-2005, 05:23 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/sifun.jpg



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/sihi.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/siboo.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/situnnel.jpg



thats si



have no recent of ponder really but here are a few i have got ( a few i have have daves bere chest on them and he does not want them shown :s)



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/backponder.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/ponderrun.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/ponderjuwp.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/pondering.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/ponderblur.jpg



shadow feels left out, but as she has been a good girl and has not reproduced there is no need to see her :P

pophammy
10-10-2005, 11:21 AM
It's hard to tell as the pics are quite dark so si looks as if he has a dark spot on his head. Does he? He does look like a silver grey. Silver grey should have Top coat: Soft pale pearly grey, Base Colour: Mid grey (the roots) blow the fur to see this. Belly fur: Ivory, Crescents: White, Ticking: Lightly & evenly ticked with brownish black (the ends of the fur) Chestband: Brownish black, Cheekflashes: Brownish black-not solidly concentrated ticking, Eyes: Black, Ears Dark grey.

Does he fit this description?

I think ponder is a Golden banded. Her band is not bad as it is not badly broken up. She could be sable, again hard to tell as she is dark. Does she have dark coloured cheek flashes? Si is probably not pure silver grey (Sgsg) as the babies appear to be golden bands and if he was pure they would have been silver grey as it is dominant.

Hope this helps but it is hard on a photo

nooboo
10-10-2005, 11:42 AM
si does have a dark patch on his head, and i think he has agouti markings (cheek flashes) and he has dark eyes.



Ponder is confusing, the lightest bit of her hair is on the very top of her head, she has a kind of mask which developed when she was about 2 months old but its not very strong. when it first apperade, we just thought it was her not cleaning properly. it really gets confusing when you notice her bottom, the half from the band down seems to be different shades of golden brown, theres a darker brown patch going down the spinal area and a slightly grayed brown patch near the bottom. the darker bits of her golden are sort of balck ttipped bur but her undercoat is light brown.



shadow we are fairly certain is a mink, as she is starting to turn a lovely caramel brown colour, at the minute it seems to change with the lighting which is funny. going to see if i can get some better lighted photos of the hamsters tonight.

pophammy
10-10-2005, 11:48 AM
I think because the head fur is shorter the dark grey undercoat shows through more and makes it look like a spot. I would still go golden on ponder as the golden colour richens and deepens with age and she will need a moult for this to start to come through properly

nooboo
10-10-2005, 12:04 PM
her undercat is actually nearly white, such a pail light brown, very much like a washed out toffee



he head looksn dark there due to her playing with a water bottle.



most her fur where it is darker looks wet, its like think blacker tipped hairs



if only i could work out a way to get her to a show



this one would be out anfway due to her litter



the darker one has opened his eyes, the other has yet to though

pophammy
10-10-2005, 12:35 PM
Sable have a cream undercoat as you describe. I think maybe the hams are 'non standard' or a bit of a mixture. There is a non standard class in most shows where no points are given for colour and the hamster is marked on the other points - size, type, eyes ears, fur thickness etc. These animals never go best in show as they lose all of the colour points straight away. You could enter in this class or pet class if the judge thought them non standard. If you entered in a straight class the judge would decide whether to reclassify or not. They are lovely anyway so why worry!

nooboo
10-10-2005, 12:37 PM
she looks a lot like this http://www.critterhut.com/care_sheets/images/HHyellow2.jpg

with aspects of this

http://www.critterhut.com/care_sheets/images/HHyellowblackfe.jpg



got links from here http://www.critterhut.com/care_sheets/h ... colors.htm (http://www.critterhut.com/care_sheets/hamster_colors.htm)



she does not stay still especially at the moment took some pictures but they are rather bad



si is more of a poser so will wait for him to wake up!

nooboo
10-11-2005, 11:56 AM
well the darker baby, has no band at all, and seems to be getting tiny ginger patches



problem is i dont want to get excited



i really want a dark and ginger tort.. but i doubt it is

nooboo
10-14-2005, 12:17 PM
still have one baby eyes open one baby eyes closed so annoying

had a incident with the baby porrige too... its in a high sided bowl in the round cage thats connected to the kidney. little darky got into the tube into the round and into the porrige.. why couldnt darky have gone for the sand!! was totally cgovered on his head back legs, didnt seem to know how to get out again eithr, i have wiped down with kitchen towelbut darky is still a bit sthicky, worried to put mum back in now as she does love her porrige

Pendragon
10-14-2005, 12:48 PM
well the darker baby, has no band at all, and seems to be getting tiny ginger patches

problem is i dont want to get excited

i really want a dark and ginger tort.. but i doubt it is



No... don't get excited... not yet anyway!!



I'm fairly positive Si is a Silver Grey, as I breed them myself. He doesn't look quite right for a Light Grey although that's still possible, but he says SG to me! Light Greys don't have such a prominent head patch and also have a very distinct warm creamy/pale gold colour on the light parts of the face. Pophammy is quite right - if he is SG then he is a heterozygote one or you wouldn't get Goldens in the litter. Compare him to Sterling, here, who is definitely a Silver Grey:



http://www.nenuphar.plus.com/hamsters/Sterling1.jpg

He doesn't have a brownish tinge to his coat in real life - he's bright clean silver and grey all over, and if you saw him head-on, you'd see his head patch is quite dark.



The little baby in my avatar is also a Silver Grey... one of Sterling's daughters.



I'd say Ponder is definitely Golden but she could be an Umbrous Golden (which makes them darker). Does she have any light creamy patches anywhere on her back, in a sort of random splotchy way? If so then she may be a Golden Tort.



Unfortunately you won't get any baby Torts unless she is a Tort herself! :( It's a dominant gene and can't be carried.



IF - big if!!!!! she is a Tort, then any female babies in the litter might be Torts (remember you cannot get male Torts!).



Where are the gingery bits on the baby one? When Goldens are tiny, the hip spots (one on each side) look gingery.



You won't believe how fast they will grow from now on!!

nooboo
10-14-2005, 06:18 PM
both have opened there eyes! and i took a moment out for a brief photo opotunity and a cage clean, ponder does not seem to care at all which i guess is a good thing.



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/handbabies.jpg



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/handbabies23.jpg



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/handbabies6.jpg



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/handbabies5.jpg



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/handbabies4.jpg



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/nooldoboo/handbabies2.jpg



they are happily eating anything which seems to include human, but its more like being sucked to death, so sweet

nooboo
10-14-2005, 06:20 PM
oh and yer i know the chance of tort is slim to none, and i thought tort in hamsters was like in cats, that you could get a tort male.. but its an extremely rare thing, and if you do have one its infertile anyway.



one day i will get a tort, i know i will have to buy it, one day i will find someone who can sell me one!!