cage help for 2 Chinese male hamsters

[fluffywalker]

Hello I'm new here and have been reading lots of posts all evening :)
I just wanted some advice on what cage would you get for two Chinese males? I did do a little research before buying them but we was planning on only getting one and in the shop the sales man recommended we get two males! He also said the mini Duna would be more then big enough. Which I know now it isn't :(
So what's best for them? Are they likely to be happy sharing together if I get a nice big cage and follow any other tips you all might have?
Thanks for reading and fire any replies :)

[Clairealex]

Hello :)

I have a male chinese on his own and from what I've read on them, they're very very unlikely to stay happy together. More than likely you'll be looking to separate. If it was me, I'd probably separate now just to be safe as from what I've read chinese should be treated like Syrians when it comes to housing, but I've never had any experience with pairs, so hopefully someone else who comes along will be able to help.

With a pair of dwarf hamsters the bigger the better. If I was you I'd go for a zoozone 2 or similar. Around 100cm x 50cm. No shelfs as this allows territorial behaviour, if using tubes use kitchen roll rather than toilet roll, two wheels, two water bottles, scatter feed, and loads of bedding to allow them to make open nests. Make sure there's nothing where one hamster could trap the other. So no houses with one door etc.

Make sure you keep your mini duna on hand when you upgrade cage. If any fighting breaks out and they need separated ASAP it'll just be a case of getting the duna out a cupboard!

Hopefully someone else who has kept chinese as pairs and has experice will be along to help!

[souffle]

I would agree with clairealex in that it is highly unlikely you will keep them together once they start to mature and the hormones kick in. It is not a natural situation ever for two mature males to live together and fighting when it does happen in Chinese is particularly awful often resulting in horrible injuries and even death :(
I would get two Mini duna / ZZ1 size cages and separate them before they have any chance to fight. They are quite content on their own although Chinese do tend to be shy and less out and about than other species but that is their nature. We find they prefer a tank type cage ourselves so they feel more sheltered.
Hope that helps

[fluffywalker]

Thank you both for your replies. I read loads more last night and think I will have to separate them :( I've got young children and they would be heart broken if they had a big fight (as would I!!) My hubby might not be happy with a extra cage around and the cost of a new one though! It's such a pity that pet shops give such bad advice as we went in to buy one female but was told it would be best to get 2 males :(
do you think the mini duna is going to be big enough for 1 Chinese on its own? Would it be okay just to get one more of them? Or not?
Thanks again

[racinghamster]

The cages soufflé mentioned (Ferplast Mini Duna or the larger Zoozone 1) would be fine for a single Chinese. The Zoozone 2 is much larger and would be fine for a single hamster to have great fun in, but not necessary. My preference would always be for the Zoozone 1 or similarly sized tank because the Duna is the bare minimum for space.

Did you buy your males from pets At Home? If you did, they are still giving out WRONG information on Chinese hamsters. They really should be sold as single hamsters. A pair will grow up together and live together for a while, some longer than others, but if you really plan to keep them in the same cage, it could mean that any potential attack that takes place will happen during the night or when you are not watching. So this is something you need to think about.

In the meantime, you have both in a mini duna, right? Okay. Now you need to think about (a) looking for another spare Mini Duna to separate now, or at some stage when you see any little signs of behavioural changes and these I have to say are not always apparent to an untrained eye.

Congratulations on choosing Chinese hamsters because they are lovely and very mouse-like in appearance. I love them. :)

Diet-wise, they will enjoy Burgess Dwarf mix as a base as this contains Canary seed. Some (most) other hamster mixes on the market contain added sugars or molasses or syrup/fructose, so these should be avoided as Chinese hamsters can be prone to diabetes. So they can`t have fruit or any sugared treats. The JR Farm Hamster foods sold on Zooplus are great and sugar free. But that website has a £15 spending limit so isn`t a viable option for many people if they only want a bag of hamster food, which is a real shame.

Tell us more about your boys? :)

And yes, buying a Zoozone 1 for both of them would be a better size cage if you do plan to keep them together, but that means you will have the Duna spare, just in case.

[fluffywalker]

Yes I did buy from pets at home :( they also said to give them little treats like raisins and I saw the man put a cut in half kiwi in the cage for them all :( seems like lots of bad advice us still given out!!
I am going to get a second cage I am sure now. I just need to find space to keep them!! Needs to be out of reach of my toddlers as I don't trust them 100% not to open the cage!!
my daughters have called them Harry (1d fan!!) And hyper the one named hyper was the happiest and running round loads when we first got them but now Harry is the more confident and hyper hides away most of the time!! I think Harry is the more dominant one and worry he might be being a bully already have I did hear lots of scratching and squeaking in one of the houses :( and hyper hasn't been back in that house since and as hidden in one of the other houses? But I could be reading to much into it.... Would rather be safe and stop the From having a fight!! The hubby will need some convincing though!!

[fluffywalker]

Sorry about all my typos!! My phone has a mind if it's own :)
I only went into pets at home to buy one female Chinese and the man told us it would be best to buy two males!!

[souffle]

The behavior you describe is not a good sign especially if there were squeakings! If one is hogging the house he is establishing territory and it sounds as if they need separating to me.
I would return to the store and advise that they are starting to fight already (just say that) and you need another cage at a reduced cost or you need to return one as it will not work out. Make a fuss about wrong advice. Be aware that as males, these two will have very large testicles when they mature and this may 'amuse' your children somewhat. Many people don't like to keep males as they find this hard to deal with actually. I love my single male and he is very happy living alone.
Chinese are quite shy though and are not always the very best pets for young kids like yours to be honest in my opinion.
Keep handling them as you want them tame for the children to enjoy. Once out they are nice and like to cling on and run up sleeves etc but the can be tricky to get out of cages with lots of hidey holes and tunnels so avoid those for now.
Moderator Vectis breeds Chinese and has a nice site here which may help:
Home - Vectis Hamstery (http://vectishams.webs.com/)

[racinghamster]

It`s ridiculous that Pets At Home are STILL selling Chinese hamsters, or any dwarf hamsters in pairs still. I truly believe this is just disaster for new owners who don`t know any better and especially where young children are involved. I`ve kept numerous dwarf hamsters and even after years of keeping small animals, I still wouldn`t risk keeping a pair together even though I know what signs to watch for.

fluffywalker, I would take soufflé`s advice and go back to Pets At Home and try and get a second cage. NOT a modular one, just a Ferplast Mini Duna will be fine. :)

What you could be seeing is Harry starting to push his dominance onto his cagemate. They have been taken from their small enclosure and are now in a new territory, new smells, new toys, new everything, so their behaviour can change due to this. It happens a lot when new hamsters are brought home. It can be a stressing situation for them and things should be kept quiet and simple for them to settle for a few weeks. But I would act now for peace of mind. f it means returning one of the hamsters to the store for adoption, you could probably do that, but if you feel you can cope with two separate hamsters, it`s not the end of the world and they don`t need hourly attention as hamsters like their sleep during the day, so if you can provide the space for another Duna tank, I would say go for it. x

[fluffywalker]

Thank you all for your replies. I have read that the males get rather large parts! I hope the girls will be ok with it. The little ones just like to watch the cage but the hamsters were brought as a pet for the older 2 that are 10 yrs and 7yrs! We have had them for just over a week now and my girls are being very good and kind to them. Taking quietly around the cage. Offering little treats to see if they take them. Changing the water and food etc. They are so desperate for a hold but understand they might not be able to for a long time yet.
I will go in the morning and get another duna. I will also talk to somebody about the bad advice I was given :(

[souffle]

There is some really good help here for the handling. I'd start this as soon as you can now
Handling Hamsters - Vectis Hamstery (http://vectishams.webs.com/handlinghamsters.htm)
Let the girls make a play / handling box for them and start the lift and lay with them.

[racinghamster]

At least you know what might happen now so you can relax a little. Pets At Home will probably hide behind the excuse that they can live in pairs, but if you look at the statistics and the reality, Chinese hamsters nearly always need separating and some usually after a bad fight or even a death has occurred. Shops in general should really only sell `pairs` or small groups of dwarf hamsters if the person buying or adopting them has knowledge and experience and actually wants to take the hamsters on like this knowing they might all need separating and they can accommodate that. But they shouldn`t be telling people it`s better to house a pair together when the reality is very different.

You have joined a good forum for learning about your new boys so welcome. :) Do take some time to read through the Chinese hamster section on here as it will help also to answer many questions you may have. x

[fluffywalker]

I'm so glad that I have joined :) I've learnt so much from reading on here!! Just a pity I went into the pet shop a few times asking them lots of questions rather then found this before!!

Thanks for the link. I have been using a big plastic box as a play pen and putting them in there and having a play. One at a time. They seem to get distressed very quick though so when they start dig in the corner and look worried I just put them back. I will try and do it more often but they are often asleep all the time even in the evening so it's hard to do it more then once a day.

[kyrilliondaemon]

I'm glad you've had lots of good advice now, I'm sorry you've had such bad advice from the pet shop though. Some stores really don't do too well with advice :(

Good luck taming the hamsters, sometimes short taming sessions can work well. We tend to let the hams go back to their cages if they're looking nervous, I think its better to have a short fun playtime than a long distressing one :)

[racinghamster]

Chinese hamsters don`t particularly like wide open spaces. They will flatten out their bodies and look a bit scared. So any play pen needs to have accessories for the hamsters to hide in like a simple small tissue box or empty tea box with a few doors cut into it. :) Although once your boys are separated, they can play one at a time (never together obviously!) But while they are together, always try to keep them close by as separating them could add to fall outs or stress. So while they are together, it`s better to let them do so and only get them out for short play sessions when they are both fully awake. I never like waking a hamster up as it can turn them into nipping.

While your boys are settling in, it`s sometimes a good idea to allow them that adjusting time also and not try to handle them too often. Taming sessions should be kept short, but always on the hamster`s terms. x