Specific Campbell breeders?

[CharlieB]

Hey guys I have been hunting for a couple of breeders and so far have had no luck. The ones I have found and spoken to won't have the colours in their litters that I am after. I am after a male and a female - I'm in no rush as I want them to be the best they can be. I am after a black female and a male black eyed Argente. One of them I would like to be mottled preferably the male. I have tried the few I have got details of that are linked with the NHC (Jean Tye has given me details and she wont be expecting the colours I am after when she has campbells again)

Does anyone have details of reputable breeders with good family lines? Distance wont be an issue I am happy to travel far to get the right ones. I will eventually be after an opal but I don't no what gender yet and it wont be for about a year or more, depending on when I can get the black and Argente.

I have looked on the list on here, but I cant see any Campbells - If I have missed them then I appologize. I want to make sure that they have good genes and no family history of illnesses with good temperment and of a good size.

Any advice would be great :) Thank you :D

[Silver]

Will you be breeding them?

xxx

[CharlieB]

I plan to yes, which is why I am being specific as to what I would like and their family history. I am not in a rush to start as I dont want to compromise health and temperament as that is the most important. I don't plan on selling them as thats not why I am doing it, I want to get specific colours and hamsters of good condition. I will get homes lined up before I have a litter - I already have a few family friends after some who I know would give them a good home.
Hope that makes sence :D

[Silver]

Yes that made sense, & I thought you were by the descriptions but thought I would ask to make sure first

I know of two NHC Campbell breeders who breed black C but I have only seen red eyed Argente's which they both breed also

Sue Our Dwarfs - Tuftyfluff Hamsters (http://tuftyfluffhamsters.webs.com/ourdwarfs.htm)
Mel Home - Wellington Hamsters (http://www.freewebs.com/wellingtonhamsters/)

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

Thank you :) I'm waiting for a reply from Tuftyfluff :D I will give Mel a go too :) Thank you - you are a star! I have a feeling a black eyed mottled argente will be hard to get hold of as I personally haven't seen any.

[souffle]

Sarah at Midnight has a litter at the moment - she's in the North near Newcastle though comes to the Northern Shows. Her details are on the Northern site though there are pup pics here:
Argente x Black Campbells (http://www.madabouthamsters.com/showthread.php/18656-Argente-x-Black-Campbells?p=254861#post254861)

[Silver]

Her Pups are STUNNING!

She has red eyed Argente C & Normal C.

I've only seen pics of Black eyed Argente too. I love them. I know some NHC breeders go to Holland once or twice a year where they bring back Dwarf hams to bring new blood lines into the U.K. You would probably get one like that but would be expensive unless you know someone who is going who has contacts with people who breed them.

Here is the Houten show http://www.ter.nl/vhmevents_prj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=221%3Aexoknaag-07-april-2013&catid=45&Itemid=285&lang=english

I would be in heaven there!

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

Thank you Souffle, I will send her a message. Going to near newcastle wont be an issue, they are worth the distance :) As long as I can plan in advance I can get there without a problem :D

The cost isn't an issue I'm willing to pay more for what I want. Do you know where I could find details of the breeders in Holland if I can't find them in the UK? The red eyed wouldn't give me my desired colour :( If they did that would make it a lot easyer :D

[CharlieB]

Sorry silver only half your message came up in my email update lol!! I will have a look at the link now
x

[Silver]

That is just the show details.

I know Mel goes sometimes & Vectis if that helps at all. I have no idea how to get into contact with the actual breeders in Holland, they may even come further than that & meet at the show.

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

I will contact the person that runs the show and ask them if they could give me any details :) I will send Vectis a message to ask :D

Thank you for all your help guys :D I only want the best and I knew asking on here would be a good place to ask!!

[Silver]

I was just thinking to myself, perhaps they found there contacts through going to the show. I know it's huge

If I could ever go I would come back with so many Dwarf hams & mice my home would be over run LOL

Silver xxx

[Silver]

Oh & if you did want to go to the show there are people who arrange coaches & accommodation on the website Reptile forums UK

Silver

P.S I will shut up now! :p

[CharlieB]

lol you dont need to shut up, its all helpful :) I have sent a message so fingers crossed :) I will look on that forum for coaches :D Fingers crossed I can get there for the next one if I can source what I want.

Im going to sound soooo dim, What paperwork will I need to show they are pure campbell? Do they have certificates? I had a form thing for my 3 that I was told were campbells but they will just stay as pets now!

[Silver]

To be honest I don't know lol.

Like you I have papers for Amy who I'm not going to breed.

I think this is where talking to Mel is needed as I know she has contacts.

I just looked on that forum & googled Houten they seem to be asking £150 for the coach trip & place to stay, tickets seem to be 10 euro.

But make sure it's the day the rodents are on as they are a reptile forum & some days may be different

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

ooo, how do I find out what day the rodents are?

[Silver]

My link to the show, It say's Sunday 7th of April.

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

Cool, thats what I thought but I get confused easily! Is there an easy way to find breeders with NHC or do you just have to ask them?

xx

[Silver]

Do you mean in the UK or from the Houten show?

The Houten show I have no idea, that's why it's best to talk to a NHC breeder who has contacts.

The UK it's the NHC website.

Sorry I confused you, I meant the other dates the reptile forum has may be rodents as well you would have to ask but on the shows website it's showing 7th of April.

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

In the UK - sorry Im jumping about a bit :D I have looked on the NHC website but I cant see a list of breeders (Im probably not looking in the right place knowing me)

Ahh ok - it doesn't take much to confuse me :D

x

[Silver]

There is also:

The Midland Hamster Club here Midland Hamster Club (http://www.midlandhamsterclub.co.uk/)

The Southern Hamster Club here Southern Hamster Club (http://www.southernhamsterclub.co.uk/new/)

The Northan Hamster Club here Welcome to the Northern Hamster Club (http://www.northernhamsterclub.co.uk/)

They have lists of breeders. You can also contact the secretary of each club for a list of Campbell breeders in there area.

They are all NHC Exhibitor/Breeders

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

I can find the list on the NHC website but not on the other 2, am I just being unbelievably dim?

x

[Kissa]

I don't think the midlands and southern clubs have a breeder list on their website for some reason ;) it'd probably be best to email the secretaries :)

As for the NHC (national HC), they have a list of current registered prefixes, but no links to various hamstery's websites or information about what they breed. To be honest, emailing the secretaries of the northern, midlands and southern clubs is probably the best way to go, unless you want to google all the registered prefixes and see if they have websites for their hamsteries :)

[Silver]

I've found the Secretary for the Southern

Email Contacts (http://www.southernhamsterclub.co.uk/new/index.php?option=com_contact&view=category&catid=12&Itemid=62)

They are only showing 4 breeders but there are more

Breeders (http://www.southernhamsterclub.co.uk/new/index.php?option=com_weblinks&view=category&id=43%3Aham-breeders&Itemid=70)

That's why it's best to email the sec of each club

Northan

List of Hamster Breeders in the northern area (http://www.northernhamsterclub.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19:breeders-list&catid=8:hamster-breeding&Itemid=28)

But can't see the Midland one

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

I have emailed Midlands for a list this morning - I will email Southern now, then I need to get on with some jobs while I wait for replys lol!! I need to get Dotty out before she makes me cry from feeling guilty for her having no cuddles last night.

I have emailed all of the Northern ones that say they do Campbells and will get onto the Southern ones too :D I think they may get fed up of me lol!!

I will keep you updated with what I find :D thank you all soooo much for the help :D
xxx

[Silver]

Your welcome,

Just to add all the shows are on the websites too & almost all have sales tables. You can meet & talk to the breeders yourself.

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

I had planned to go to the show yesterday - had my train tickets and everything but with my mamouth cold I thought best not to share my germs with the hammys and make them poorly, I was devestated!

I'm glad to say I have my black sorted :D I'm on the waiting list for one of tuftyfluffs when they next have a litter :D I'm so happy :D Still on the hunt for the Argente though

xx

[Silver]

That's great news.

Sue is lovely & so are her hams I've had two Pure WW's from Sue & both were/are adorable.

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

I'm very excited, It wont be for a while as breeding has slowed down but means I can have time to find my BEA!! I have 6 breeders I am waiting to hear from so I have everything crossed! Plus any extra that the clubs can give me details of :D

xx

[Silver]

That all sounds promising!

Please let me know when you get your pair I would love to know all about them & their litter if all goes to plan.

There are not enough Breeders of Pure Dwarfs around.

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

I will do! The black is coming from 4 generations of pedigree Campbells so will be fantastic :-D

There seams to be lots of Syrian breeders about compared to dwarfs, and even the the Campbells are only a small selection of them! We need more pure breeds! Fingers crossed now that I can get the BEA!

Xx

[Silver]

Thank's

Your right so many Syrian breeders or Hybrid breeders, few Pure Dwarf's

xxx

[PolkaDot*Skye]

Hi just wanted to say that I got my campbell's from Mel at Wellington. She had some blacks but I don't know if she has any remaining as it was towards the end of January.

I'm trying to remember if she had any BEA but I just can't.
She definitely had argentines at the time though.

Dinks my black campbell is gorgeous even though Mel said he has a pattern trying to come through. He has a few white stripes to him which I think adds to his cuteness.

I'm really excited to see how you get on

[Silver]

My Amy's from Mel

Lovely lady too

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

I haven't had a reply from Mel yet - but its not been long, I'm sure she is busy :D Sue and Jean (tristar I believe) are lovely and being really helpful! I am debating in my head at the moment about weather a REA would be a safer bet for showing :(

[Silver]

I spoke to Jean when I was looking for A ham & ended up with Amy from Mel. Another lovely lady.

If BEA are rare then they have a point.

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

A few people are saying that the colours I am going for are likely to be disqualified even in the non-standard as they aren't the recognised colours :'( Im concidering a REA so I can go to Dove so they wont be disqualified I'm just terrified of eyeless toothless whites. I no thats not likely as I would be doing a non-mottled black to a REA but I still worry!
x

[Silver]

Well I know nothing about Genetics so can't help you there lol

Dove is a lovely color. I know not all colors of Dwarf's are recognised. I have seen chocolate& Beige Campbell's on Mels website, but they are not recognised either.

Silver xxx

[CharlieB]

lol! Its chocolate I am aiming for and then when I achieve that introduce another to get to a different colour :D I dont want to go into it too much on here for people to think oh I can do that and not really be serious about it :D After some good advice I think I will start simple for now and work up to the harder colours.

x

[Silver]

Sounds like a plan to me & I understand about talking on here.

I "Think" you need to have three generations of the color you want to get recognised to present to the NHC then they could still say no lol

Silver xxx

[lisab]

It doesnt matter what colour the hams are. If there is no standard for them they just go in the non-standard class as they are not marked on colour just everything else.
Nowhere in the handbook does it say that a non-recognised colour should be DQ.
It just means that no-one has written a standard for the colour and brought it forward to the standards commitee :)

[souffle]

The only time a non standard hamster would be disqualified Charlie is if the judge had reason to suspect it was a Hybrid or if it had another disqualification meriting fault such as a missing limb or genetically inherited fault. Hybrid hamsters are not allowed to be shown. If a mandarin WW for example was entered in non standard it would be disqualified (at least my me it would!) as these are known to be from hybridisation.
hamsters entered in non standard classes however are not allowed to enter any duplicate classes or other classes like Novice so you do not get the pleasure of these classes.

[Vectis Hamstery]

I have been told by more than one judge that they would disqualify a black-eyed white Chinese should I enter one as they are not (currently) on the recognised mutations list and their interpretation of a paragraph which I currently can't find is that any colour/pattern that does not feature in the recognised list should be excluded from showing. Not all judges feel the same, however, so I choose where I enter them :)

ETA: Aha, found it!

8. All exhibitors must enter each exhibit in its appropriate straight class before it
can be entered in any duplicate class. It is the responsibility of each exhibitor to
ensure that all their exhibits, to the best of their knowledge;
(a) show only the natural colour for the species or mutation(s) listed in
Appendix C.
(b) do not have any other species of hamster in their background
(c) have no hamsters in their ancestry that do not meet criteria (a) and (b)

[CharlieB]

I tried to say that souf but I need lessons on how to say what I mean in an understandable way :D Thank you for making it clearer :D My second ham is now up in the air (most likely will be a REA) Just need to find a good one hehe!!

[Kissa]

Vectis, how do we get mutations into Appendix C? Not all the Robo mutations are mentioned in it either :p

BEA is mentioned for Campbells, though! ;)

Also Anophthalmic White is actually mentioned in Appendix C for Syrians :?

[souffle]

Anopththalmic White is a naturally occurring recognised mutation so in theory you could enter it in Non standard however I don't think it would be looked on very kindly!
I think they are added as they become more prominent and the genetics is worked out and people will start looking towards getting the new mutations recognised, proven and standardised.

[Silver]

I know nothing about genetics so will gracefully exit stage left :p

But I am pleased this thread has got people talking about good breeding of Dwarfs, it's through threads like this people learn

Silver xxx

[Vectis Hamstery]

To get a mutation recognised, you have to put forward information to the Standards committee. I haven't heard yet about what I've sent so I can't say what the right amount of information is!

[lisab]

I have been told by more than one judge that they would disqualify a black-eyed white Chinese should I enter one as they are not (currently) on the recognised mutations list and their interpretation of a paragraph which I currently can't find is that any colour/pattern that does not feature in the recognised list should be excluded from showing. Not all judges feel the same, however, so I choose where I enter them :)

ETA: Aha, found it!

Going on that. All syrians shown in non-standard not listed should be DQed and that never happens, it sounds like one rule for one and one rule for another lol
Most colours are known by judges and have proper names so I think If it is a non standard colour then it can be shown in non standard. Blue campbells have been shown as have black eyed white robos over the last year and neither of them are listed. (If they have been recognised the list needs updateing :P)

To me that quote does not say if you dont know what it is it doesnt get judged. but as you say its how you read it :)

[CharlieB]

Hehe silver I'm glad you are pleased :-D I didn't mean for this to be so in depth hehe!

I will leave the appendix c questions and mutation things to those that know more, I will read and learn from it :-D

My dream is slowly being squished - but I'm not giving up hope! Now just waiting for the right hammys :-Dand fingers crossed I can get others interested in helping in my quest :-D

[Vectis Hamstery]

Don't think of it as squished, more of learning the basics first before going for something unusual or complicated ;) I always wanted to work with BEW Chinese but started out with the standard varieties and learned what I was supposed to be looking for, how to best select pairs and a lot more about the species in general before moving into less well charted waters. Good luck with your plans.

[CharlieB]

I don't mind about not starting them right away - basics come first :D If I got one and completely got something wrong I wouldn't forgive myself. Its only being squished as I cant find one anwhere not the being able to get one right now :'( If that makes sence?

I am now in discussions about a REA to start with the Dove but it is all a waiting game for the right hams. It may be a few months if not more before I get the right ones as where I want my black from isn't expecting an litters very soon. Then it will be a question of finding the right ones to pair - If I get them both from the same hamstery (Different parentage of course) that would be brilliant as then hopefully they will help me to get the right pair - but if all fails with the pair first time round, I would love them just as much :D

I want the next show to hurry up so I can get talking haha!! Dotty is seaming keen to help watch over them! She is trying to help me type :D

[olga]

Good luck with your plans and hope you find what you want.

[CharlieB]

Thank you, fingers crossed :D

[lisab]

I too like vectis have long term breeding plans but for my campbells. I started with normals so I could get used to what makes a show dwarfs I gained one champion at the end of the year :D. Since then I have branched out and am trying to get all campbell colours back on the show bench but am trying to keep type and everything else there aswell as just a colour.
Good luck with your campbell plans even if you enjoy it half as much as i am you will have a very interesting time
I so get what you mean. I want blue mottled but because no one breeds them I have to "make them" myself :)
If its doves you fancy have you emailed Wessex hams? they breed doves.

[Silver]

I too like vectis have long term breeding plans but for my campbells. I started with normals so I could get used to what makes a show dwarfs I gained one champion at the end of the year :D. Since then I have branched out and am trying to get all campbell colours back on the show bench but am trying to keep type and everything else there aswell as just a colour.
Good luck with your campbell plans even if you enjoy it half as much as i am you will have a very interesting time
I so get what you mean. I want blue mottled but because no one breeds them I have to "make them" myself :)
If its doves you fancy have you emailed Wessex hams? they breed doves.

I love you! :mad:

You know what I mean ;)

xxx

[CharlieB]

My ultimate dream ham colour is the campagne :D so thats where I want to get to. Lisa, as you are ahead of me in the quest I will follow your hams very very closely :D

I thought I had tryed Wessex - Just looked in my email sent box and cant find it - I can find every other email I have sent about them but not the one to them - I will send another just to make sure I have contacted them in hope that if I have they wont think I am bugging them :D

I think I have my black and REA found - Just need to get it confirmed before I start getting too excited :) I'm going to start with non-mottled for a while until I get my perfect show ham and go from there :D

x

[Queen Of The High Teas]

CharlieB, can I ask where you've contacted or found a black Campbell? I'm looking for one myself, their very hard to find it seems!

Good luck with your venture:D

[CharlieB]

Tuftyfluff, but she doesnt currently have any as the hammys have slowed down breeding due to the cold weather there is also wellington that breeds blacks, there are others but they are the 2 most recent emails saying they breed them :)

[lisab]

I love you! :mad:

You know what I mean ;)

xxx

I know what you mean :P


Its great to see someone else wanting to start up with campbells they are so misunderstood. I of course will be keeping up with you as well to see how you are doing.

I have blacks in a litter at the moment, I am doing really well with my campbells breeding at the moment even with the time of year.
But of course I dont know what (if any) I will be looking for homes. I have an unrelated black platinum male waiting for a girlfriend so I know its a black to black mating. I also have a few doves in the same litter again I dont know if I will be looking for homes but I can always keep you in mind if you havnt found anything :)

Its so difficult compared to syrians looking for campbells as there are only a handfull of breeders and not all colours are bred hear.

[Silver]

It is so different to Syrians it's not funny. When I was looking for Amy I was really surprised how few pure dwarf breeders there are.

We are so very lucky to have them in the U.K as many country's do not.

When I look here at Mel's website I drool over the different colors there some are & as far as I am aware are not in the U.K

Dwarf Colours - Wellington Hamsters (http://www.freewebs.com/wellingtonhamsters/dwarfcolours.htm)

Pure Dwarfs are my passion, & there is no doubt I would be a Pure Dwarf breeder. But I know I can't due to my health so have not looked into genetics because of this reason. I went a different way instead with the food.

I agree Campbell's get a bad rap this I believe is due to Hybrids being called Campbell's in pet shops, they seem to name them russians or WW's now. I hope WW's don't get a bad rap now.

xxx

[CharlieB]

I am so excited to start! Even my hammys are excited to have little brothers and sisters!

I should start a campaign to get only pedigree Campbells and WW available in the UK, Pure breeds are the ONLY way to go :D Im not saying that hybrids are nasty in character - mine are lovely little characters but there are sooo many problems with them and I am dredding one getting poorly again because they can be so stroppy and tempermental!

Lisa - you will have to keep me updated on your colours :D

Silver - I am glad you did the food! I have stuffed hammys with your food hehe

I may have some exciting news soon - but things are only being discussed so far so not confirmed. I'm bulging at the sides trying to keep it in :D

xxx

I love the photo of the Champagne - but they are much better in person

[Queen Of The High Teas]

I know what you mean :P


Its great to see someone else wanting to start up with campbells they are so misunderstood. I of course will be keeping up with you as well to see how you are doing.

I have blacks in a litter at the moment, I am doing really well with my campbells breeding at the moment even with the time of year.
But of course I dont know what (if any) I will be looking for homes. I have an unrelated black platinum male waiting for a girlfriend so I know its a black to black mating. I also have a few doves in the same litter again I dont know if I will be looking for homes but I can always keep you in mind if you havnt found anything :)

Its so difficult compared to syrians looking for campbells as there are only a handfull of breeders and not all colours are bred hear.

Lisa are you on MAH by any chance? I recognise your name and Hamstery name, I'm sure I sent you a pm asking about blacks a few weeks ago! If your not, I've just made a complete jerk of myself!

[olga]

I should start a campaign to get only pedigree Campbells and WW available in the UK, Pure breeds are the ONLY way to go

Is it possible that you could start a campaign? I think it is unforgivable that hybrids are allowed to be bred.

[CharlieB]

I could but then it's a question of who to send it to to get something implemented!

[lisab]

Lisa are you on MAH by any chance? I recognise your name and Hamstery name, I'm sure I sent you a pm asking about blacks a few weeks ago! If your not, I've just made a complete jerk of myself!

I am on MAH. and yes I think you did :) well someone asked me about blacks :p

Unfortunalty I think it would be a lost cause. With pets shops and people who breed "russian dwarfs" that just dont care about purity, I dont think anything could ever be done. some countys do breed hybrids ans think as long as its X amount of generations they class it as pure again.

[Queen Of The High Teas]

Wrong post!

[Queen Of The High Teas]

I am on MAH. and yes I think you did :) well someone asked me about blacks :p

Unfortunalty I think it would be a lost cause. With pets shops and people who breed "russian dwarfs" that just dont care about purity, I dont think anything could ever be done. some countys do breed hybrids ans think as long as its X amount of generations they class it as pure again.

Yep, that was me:p I'm on a different name there. I remember you said to ask in a couple of months, so I'll send you another pm in a month or so:D.

[Silver]

The only way Hybrids would not be bred & sold in the Uk is by stopping the demand for them. I.E don't buy them.

But unless you are on a hamster forum or have got your Dwarfs from a NHC exhibitor/Breeder then you won't even know they are not pure & could have health problems.

The hamster forums have a lot of people on them but it's a drop in the ocean compared with the population of the U.K that have a pet shop Dwarf.

xxx

[CharlieB]

I no it is pointless doing a petition - it was meant as a joke :D there are too many backstreet breeders who have no concern about the health of the hammy for anyone to get it stopped :( Even if we got some people to agree to not sell hybrids they could claim they don't no the difference if they were found to be selling them - then there is the issue of a governing body to ensure if it is implemented. Unfortunatly its just not going to happen :( only way we can reduce hybrids is to reach out and educate more people then they might not listen! xx

[olga]

Wouldn't a start be to gather info on a specific thread on this forum and then people could use it as a pro forma and write to the big pet stores? Surely the big stores are the place to start but we would need concrete info on what hybrid dwarfs can suffer and I do not know of facts that we would need to put our points across.
If more of us clubbed together and targetted the head office of a big chain of pet shops then somebody somewhere might just start to listen. But we need facts. I know we all quote the problems that hybrids can have but we need facts.
There are enough of us on this forum who feel strongly about this issue and all of us could spend a few minutes writing an email or letter to one place. The wording could be very similar and it would not take forum members much time to email.
It might prick someone's conscience? Or they may be more inclined to listen if lots of us contacted them?

[Silver]

The big pet chains are only interested in profit.

They sell a hamster they replace the hamster with another one as quickly as possible.

They won't stop using rodent mills because they are the only way to keep the hams coming to make money.

If we could get rodent mills banned from breeding "russians, Campbell's & WW's" which we know to be hybrids & only by law be able to breed Syrian, Robo's & Chinese hams that are pure because they won't inter breed then that would be a good start.

Then you would need to look at the welfare of the other animals bred by rodent mills I.E only two litters per female that kind of thing to bring the standards up

Silver xxx

[Queen Of The High Teas]

It's a nice idea but its fantasy unfortunately. It's a shame but most people still see hamsters as pocket money pets to shut the kids up, so they won't be bothered what their buying. Lets face it, they won't stop puppy mills and interbreeding all sorts of dogs without health checks. Even the pedigree breeds are full of murky terrible health and ethics issues, if they won't stop with 'mans best friend' they sure as hell won't with hamsters.