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View Full Version : Possible Second Time Mum Advice?


Holly
05-09-2008, 03:13 PM
Before I go any further I just want to say that this is something I'm *thinking* about doing but certainly haven't decided to do - the well-being of Smartie is my primary concern and, even if I do go ahead, it will not be until she has had as much time as she needs to recover from the rigours of first time motherhood, losing the majority of her litter and a phantom pregnancy to boot.

Yes, I'm considering the idea of another litter from Smartie and Toby. As many of you know only five babies survived from their last litter of at least 16 - so it's something I won't decide on lightly.

My reasons for:

*Smartie is one of my best girls - she's a very dark LH Satin Cream and she also has size on her side (she weighed in tonight at 210g)

*She carries REC - meaning we've a chance of more RECs and Minks (there were several RECs and Minks in this litter - sadly only one REC, a male, survived).

*Chris and Pete really liked several of the babies in this litter and I think they are mostly nice types, good sizes and very friendly (I know it's early days yet - I might be totally wrong!).

*All the surviving babies are male - and I really wanted a female to continue Smartie's line - especially a REC.


My reasons against:

*I don't want to do anything to harm Smartie in any way - or shorten her possible lifespan any more than I've already done by mating her once. Would she be happier just left to live out her life in comfort without the hassle of babies (I always thought I'd only breed from my girls the one time).

*I'm worried about putting my son (and myself) through the trauma of watching lots of beautiful babies die and being able to nothing for them. I know it's a risk with any mating but, because it's happened to Smartie once, is it more likely to happen again?

*Totally selfish this one - there are a lot of shows over the summer and I want to show her! :oops:

So what I'm really asking is for opinions - especially from experienced breeders but also from everyone - to help me decide? I'd also like to know how long I'd be best to leave her before trying again (she will be one at the end of September)?

Matty Day
05-09-2008, 03:21 PM
well i would say you a have a nice rec boy so why not just breed from him? you could easily just wait and find a nice rec girl for him. and there advantage you could wait a year or more and be opportunist ie grab a nice girl when one comes up :x

why are you so desperate for a girl if you dont mind me asking?
have you got a boy in mind?

but i cant see anything wrong with a second litter :x

Bunsey
05-09-2008, 04:58 PM
i think she wants to breed toby to a REC and therefore, Smartie is perfect for this :wink:

Unless the pups died because Smartie was a bad mother, which is not the case, then i can't see anything wrong with breeding her again. A lot of females get bred 3 times, although i'm planning to limit mine to just 2 times at most.

Basia
05-09-2008, 05:20 PM
I would be prepared to breed twice from my girls as long as they had a 3 month gap between litters.
Smartie is a healthy, well cared for girl, 2 litters shouldn't harm her.
As for the loss of the babies, there are no guarantees, but you were very unlucky last time, hopefully you would have better luck next time.

Spuds Mum
05-09-2008, 05:20 PM
As yo know, I dont think I come under the expert class Holly, but all I can say is that it is very likely Smartie will do even better with her second litter.
The reason I say this of course is because of Princess - from first litter of 3 survivors to a litter of 13 without a runt!

We gave her a long gap of about 6 months between litters, though she recovered well, and looked strong enough to breed again after a couple of months. We also took advice by talking to breeders at shows who didnt feel that any harm would come to her by breeding her again and were very confident that she would probably do better next time.

As you know, BB's second breeding was a last minute decision as I had decided to go away from creams, but she has been a model Mum both times and recovered very quickly from raising her first litter.

I think its something that you should think about, and decide what is right for you. The litter she produced especially that beautiful REC, was gorgeous, very nice. I maybe though am coming from a different angle than you, as I have never worried about breeding my females twice, unless there was a real reason not to.

Of course there are no guarantees that everything will go swimmngly, but I can't see any obvious reasons why it wouldn't. Five surviving pups is still almost an average litter size, and she will be more experienced a second time of course.

Good to be giving it some thought though of course. let us know what you decide. x

Yaffle
05-10-2008, 01:26 AM
I really wouldn't worry about breeding her a second time from what I gather it's quite common practice and my Yeti was a second time mum for the litter she had with me. Just as long as you give her plenty of time to recover which we all know you will I'm sure she'll be fine.

Just as a side issue though, if you really want Smartie for showing then I'd give it a little more thought, as Yeti's second litter really aged her and ever since she's looked like a lil' old lady bless her and as such dosn't score as well in shows as she once did. That being said some people find motherhood improves the condition of the hamster, but I'm not so sure second time round - the pups really took their toll on Yeti's belly fur :?

Spuds Mum
05-10-2008, 01:29 AM
Ahh never thought of that Yaffs, as Princess bloomed even more after her second litter - she bulked out (rather than just got fat) and her fur condition etc.

But it did take it out of Yeti a bit didnt it?

Holly
05-10-2008, 01:54 AM
Thank you for the insights, guys - yes, Bunsey, I do want to mate Toby to Smartie again for the range of colours I got (before they died :( ) as well as my reasons above.

So most of you seem to have no problems with a female having a second litter. A biggish gap in between is important obviously - what is the latest you would leave it with Smarts, bearing in mind she's one at the end of September?

I guess, by showing her through the summer as she is now (at Todmorden, Brinsworth, Willington and Emley) and then seeing what she's like at the beginning of August, I could maybe have my cake and eat it - I can show her and have another litter - thus solving the problem Yaffle had (though it would be nice to still show her after a second litter too, if she's ok).

It's not a decision I need to make now, unless leaving it until she's getting on for 11 months is too late?

Spuds Mum
05-10-2008, 01:59 AM
Its a chance - we never got that second litter out of Vala and started trying at 11 months - but then that may have been the Daddy - that is the breeder's suspicion.

Cream seem to be robust and fertile, so Id say maybe wait and see how she is in a couple of months and then decide from there - you may in the meantime have bought so many hams you decide not to!

(or maybe not :D )

Holly
05-10-2008, 02:06 AM
Cream seem to be robust and fertile, so Id say maybe wait and see how she is in a couple of months and then decide from there - you may in the meantime have bought so many hams you decide not to!

(or maybe not :D )

Oh nononononono - I must not! Sales tables are not in my plans at all, just now, though I know you know how hard it is to stick to that! I do have a couple of prospective new additions in the pipeline a few months down the line but that's it - I want to concentrate on the lines and colours I've started here so I need to be more restrained in future (Ha! I hear you all cry!).

I don't think, as you say, I need to decide now but it's interesting thinking ahead.

Spuds Mum
05-10-2008, 02:10 AM
Its strange to say with two new boys arriving in my home shortly, but I feel just the same, in that I am now in a position to have breeding plans, and the hamsters to fulfill them and so I too am trying to steer clear of any sales tables.

We'll keep each other strong Holly, or maybe just crumble together! :roll: