Oxbow or Hazel Hamster?

[Sable-Shepherd]

Hey guys, I've got a Chinese Hamster who's been on Hazel Hamster for the month + a couple days I've had her. I've always been iffy about this food because of the chemicals and dyes in it but everyone says it's best, especially for a diabetic prone hamster. Now my other problem with feeding it is I'm basically paying $10 for 1lb of food once I pull all the corn and peas out which just seems ridiculous. I picked up a bag of Oxbow yesterday to try because 1) I don't have to sit and pull out different pieces, 2) She can't be picky (Since she normally leaves her alfalfa pellets which also reduces the nutrition I'm giving her after I've pulled corn and peas) and 3) Since I don't have to pull out (a lot of) food that gets tossed in the trash it about comes to about the same or cheaper in price.

I added a couple of pieces to Leela's bowl last night and she seems to eat them just as well as the rest of her food. It doesn't have chemicals, dyes or any sugary foods in it which is also a bonus.

So which would you guys pick? Or would it be best to feed a staple of Oxbow with some Hazel Hamster on the side? That I could swing for in cost. OR what about feeding Oxbow and my own seed mix on the side? What would be best for my mix?

[HollyHamster]

I would be wary of Oxbow as it says its a complete nutrition for all small animals. Each small animal has very different diet needs. Plus, its very bland and boring for a hamster to be constantly on.

[Sable-Shepherd]

The bag I have says specifically for hamsters/gerbils? I mean I get that hamsters aren't gerbils and vise versa but most brands do come as the same type of food for each. They also have a rabbit formula, guinea pig formula, rat formula, chinchilla formula...All specifically labeled towards a different animal. So I'm not quite sure I follow what you mean when they say it's for all small animals? I planned to add a seed mix to it anyways, which was why I asked about mixing it with Hazel Hamster or more preferably so I'm not giving my hamster cancer or other diseases from the chemicals/dyes in HH, my own seed mix. I just don't know what mix would be best to make up. I also add fresh food to all my pets diets. :confused:

[Biscotti]

I personally don't like Hazel Hamster for the reason you listed, there's just too much dyed extruded biscuits and huge alfafa pellets that my hams don't eat, they're also not keen on the rest. I can imagine after having to pick out the corns and peas, you're basically left with a small handful of food that cost $10. To me it doesn't matter if Hazel Hamster has the right nutritional %, because the hams are not getting the right % if they're not eating most of it.

I'd go with Oxbow supplemented with seed mix for a good balance between nutrition and variety. I know that Oxbow had changed their recipe some time ago, instead of 17% protein, the newer batches now only has 15%. Some places might still carry the old version, so I'd get those ones if possible, just make sure to double check the label.

You can supplement with good quality budgie seed mix, look for ones that has mostly millet/canary seed/oats with just moderate amount of oily seeds like nyjer/rape/flax. Make sure the mix doesn't have onions, peppers, or orange oil. And as always, give a good variety of fresh greens and proteins. :)

[HollyHamster]

Gerbils and hamsters are completely different animals and need completely different nutrition. I'd never use a food that is advertised as being for both.

I'd never make my own seed mix unless I could get it analyzed professionally as being nutritionally balanced for a hamster's needs. Its just not safe to go about doing it because you could be depriving them of something or giving them too much of something else.

Rest assured that Hazel Hamster is perfectly safe. Its the best food out there save Silver's mix. I'd use it over Oxbow any day.

[Sable-Shepherd]

@Biscotti: That's kinda what I was feeling. Oxbow is pretty similar in ratios to Hazel Hamster, a little lower as is but when you take out the peas and corn (Plus the alfalfa she leaves behind), a lot of that percentage in HH falls. It's 18% protein in the Hazel Hamster, peas and corn make up a large percentage of this. Peas, corn and alfalfa also play a big part in the fiber percentage! But those all get removed or go uneaten so these ratios drop quite a bit. Oxbow is 15% protein but can't be no worse than Hazel Hamster once everything is picked out. It also has far more fiber which is suppose to be better for a diabetic hamster, yes? No? Hazel Hamster is 9% max but because they don't list the minimum, God knows what it really is by each bag. Oxbow list their fiber as 10%min and 15%max. So you can assume that even at it's lowest amount, the Oxbow outweighs Hazel Hamster in fiber even when nothing is removed. Fat is a whopping 0.50% difference between the two foods, which could easily be made up by adding fresh foods, just as the protein could I'm sure.

It's amazing that in all the animals I've kept, well over 100 breeds and species, hamsters are the only ones who seem to be rocket science to feed. Oh how did my hamsters growing up live such healthy and long lives in Habitrails, eating whatever was cheapest! :o

I mean, technically when you feed anything fresh you're "ruining" the ratios anyways...? I don't try to be difficult, I do really want to learn. I also know too much and fail to just turn a blind eye to the fact I'm feeding something day in and day out that I won't (Or try very hard not to) put into my own body or in the body of any other animal I own. Something that is linked to many health and behavioral problems.

[Sable-Shepherd]

Alright, so I decided to be "that owner" and actually separate the food to see how much was of each. I used an already opened bag so it doesn't total up to the original 2lb but it's what was left of the food.

The total I had left was 16.8 ounces. (Or just over a pound)

Alfalfa pellets were 3.45oz
Corn and peas were 4.20oz
The rest of the mix that she gets and eats each day was 9.15oz

Which means just under half of the food gets thrown in the trash, food she gets NO nutrition from though it makes up a good portion of the ratio on the label.

[kyrilliondaemon]

Alright, so I decided to be "that owner" and actually separate the food to see how much was of each. I used an already opened bag so it doesn't total up to the original 2lb but it's what was left of the food.

The total I had left was 16.8 ounces. (Or just over a pound)

Alfalfa pellets were 3.45oz
Corn and peas were 4.20oz
The rest of the mix that she gets and eats each day was 9.15oz

Which means just under half of the food gets thrown in the trash, food she gets NO nutrition from though it makes up a good portion of the ratio on the label.

I weighed what we'd taken out of the P@H hamster mix before we changed off it lol
Can't remember the figures anymore but it was impressive just how much of the weight was pellets the hams wouldn't touch. Don't think I weighed the corn we took out for the hybrids though.

I'd use whatever works best for you. Different people find different things work best. We use one mix that works well for us, but I know a few others who've found it works really badly for them. It often depends on the individual hamsters really.

[Bozly's Family]

I do Oxbow for my hybrid dwarf at the recommendation of all the local small animal vets. Their recommendation was in response to my asking them what to do about Bozly being a picky child. I supplement a lot too with some live mealworms, seed mix, millet, and fresh veggies. Bozly really likes his Oxbow, too!

[Biscotti]

Alright, so I decided to be "that owner" and actually separate the food to see how much was of each. I used an already opened bag so it doesn't total up to the original 2lb but it's what was left of the food.

The total I had left was 16.8 ounces. (Or just over a pound)

Alfalfa pellets were 3.45oz
Corn and peas were 4.20oz
The rest of the mix that she gets and eats each day was 9.15oz

Which means just under half of the food gets thrown in the trash, food she gets NO nutrition from though it makes up a good portion of the ratio on the label.

Oh lol I thought I was the only one that did that. :mad: I had tried Hazel Hamster due to the glowing recommendations, but honestly it didn't work for me. I have picky hams, I guess.

For the record, I'm a big advocate on quality of life, so I prefer mixes with a good variety of seeds and herbs, and is not a fan of lab block only diets. But as you all know, there's really no perfect hamster mix available in the US, so if complete nutrition is the main goal, then oxbow plus seed mix/fresh food supplements is a pretty good alternative.



It's amazing that in all the animals I've kept, well over 100 breeds and species, hamsters are the only ones who seem to be rocket science to feed.


It does feel that way sometimes, doesn't it. :mrgreen:

[Sable-Shepherd]

Heh, well I guess it's no worse than dog food. I'd say that's the most heated subject I've ever been on. I was even told by a lady once that I didn't deserve my dogs and that I was a "pin headed idiot on the low end of the pay scale" because I refuse to pay $100 for 28lb of Orijen dog food when I can make (And do make) my own dog food for less than half that price. (Not to mention they use fish by-products and refuse to put it on the label/be open about it to customers and I don't like liars...But that's a topic for another day! Lol!) I guess I just don't see why hamsters would need such specific ratios in their diet that one or two percentages off would kill them. (Which obviously it won't or they'd probably go extinct - I doubt wild hammies are sitting around plotting out exact ratios of protein/fat/fiber for their daily meals. xD Not to mention how many people would kill them feeding other brands...) I just don't understand why chemical induced Hazel Hamster seems to be the worshiped food for hamsters. (Similar to Orijen for dogs it seems! LOL!) I don't understand why people say they HAVE to have 18% protein, 5% fat and 9% fiber exactly, yet turn around and recommend half of the ingredients be removed. If someone could explain to me the need for exact ratios and why going out of them is bad, then that would be great. I'm not talking way out like 32% protein or 20% fat...But a little over one day or a little under the next...It would make more sense to me that the aim should be variety and balance OVER TIME like pretty much every other animal. (Including humans) Even my fish have about 6 different foods + 3 different treats AND I feed fresh foods. Variety and balance over time has always kept us healthy, why wouldn't it work for a hamster? Even Hermit Crabs which can be ridiculous to keep (Especially Strawberries ugh!) aren't nearly as hard as some people make hamsters and their care/food out to be.

[TwistedAngel]

Sable Shepherd: Hello! I make my own cat food, and catch hades for it from a lot of people, so I am with you there.

That being said, I did a lot of research before I started making Amber's food, and I follow a vet sanctioned recipe. To be honest, I feel like making cat food (and dog food) is easy, whereas making hamster food is a little more difficult because cats are obligate carnivores and dogs are opportunistic carnivores which means building a prey item, so you know what ratios of meat/bone/organ to mix or you can buy whole (or ground) prey items and just add back the nutrients that freezing can deteriorate (taurine is the main one for cats, they can't synthesize it in sufficient amounts like canines can).

Nobody knows exactly WHAT the different breeds of hamster eat in the wild, and it doesn't help that they are omnivores. I was looking into creating my own hamster mix and honestly, it gave me a headache. And I kept freaking out because there is no site like catinfo.org for hamsters as a resource for trusted recipes from someone who knows what they are talking about.

That being said, I tried Hazel Hamster and 1. Ever didn't really eat it and 2. I was worried about the amount of the mix I had to pick out to screw up the ratios. And I won't let my cat eat anything with BHT, BHA, ethoxyquin, or menadione sodium bisulfate in it... so I am not keen on letting Ever eat anything with that in it either. So I feed oxbow as my base with a seed mix and mealworms as treats, and she also gets around 3 crickets a day to boost the protein percentage. Crickets are high protein and low fat, so she can have them daily, unlike the mealworms and seedmix, which have too much fat.

[Sable-Shepherd]

If nobody knows then that technically means Hazel Hamster or any other dry food could be way off for all or just some. Heck, no kibbles for any other animal is right, the only reason the animals even live is because of all the synthetic vitamins added. I don't know about hamster trials but with dog and cat trials there has to be a minimum of 10 test subjects and at least 6 of them have to do "ok" on it. Not great, not thrive...Just survive. This means at most 4 test subjects can DIE from the food and it will still be passed as "complete and balanced". Oh and the trial only has to last 6 months.

I'm not even talking my own mix and nothing else, just some ideas to throw into a container that will offer a large variety on the side of some pre-made food. If I can't do that successfully than we're all screwed feeding "extras" like baby food, scrambled eggs, veggies, ect.

It's nice that someone else understands dogs are opportunistic carnivores, NOT omnivores!! xD Though I don't follow recipes, I use a huge variety of animals and their raw body parts to create my dogs diets. It's what works for us and the 360 on my senior has been amazing! Gooey, yeasty, smelly, flaky skin on every kibble, grain free or not, that I tried. I even tried The Honest Kitchen and Artisan, a little better but still a gross dog. Went prey-model raw and BAM! Beautiful, soft, non-smelly coat, and no more full body yeast infections! Just a beautiful senior who looks 10 years younger than she is. ;)

Besides dog food, I've also made cat food, rat food, mouse food, bird food, fish food for fresh, brackish and saltwater varieties, I've made Hermit Crab food, I've made turtle food....All of them have lived long, happy, healthy lives. I don't have the time to always feed ALL my animals a homemade diet but I at least try to supplement with it at the least. I can understand hamsters being harder but it can't mean impossible! Again, all I was looking for was a seed mix to supplement her other food (Preferably Oxbow) with! If it's impossible than I guess I need to stop picking out the corn/peas from her Hazel Hamster and stop feeding her anything extra. Though apparently that is wrong too since everyone says you're suppose to pick out corn/peas for dwarfs. But then again, how are the ratios correct for Hazel Hamster when half the bag is in the trash? Guess I'm still looking for that answer as to why everyone else can supplement real foods but I ask about it and it seems my answer lands me with a dunce hat.

[Silver]

If you know of any businesses that would like to sell a Syrian & Dwarf hamster food that is eaten at least 90% of if not more, that does not need anything taken out then I'm your girl :mad:

Silver xxx

[Mikayla]

I didn't read much of the thread my but opinion is that Oxbow is better.

Honestly, food marketed for hamsters and gerbils isn't too much of a deal if you look at the percentages. They percentages of Oxbow are good for hamsters, so there isn't an issue for hamsters.

Hazel Hamster is wasted in my house. The eat maybe half of the food, if that, so they obviously aren't getting what they need. The only hamster that gets Hazel Hamster in its entirety is Nim. She's got tumours the size of the top of my thumb, diet isn't her biggest issue. I just want her to be happy for her twilight time.

I mix Hazel Hamster and Oxbow because I don't want my the hamsters to be without seeds, but I want them to have a decent diet. I know where each of their hoards are (save Nimmy), and I check their bowl and hoards and they don't get fed until all of the Oxbow is gone. They've all learned this pretty quick and have quit holding out on me. :)

The food issue in America is a losing battle unless you make your own. I don't have the time, or money, to do that. So, this is what I've got.

[Silver]

In my Opinion Hamster need 19% protein & Gerbils need 15.5

But that is just my opinion

Silver xxx

[HollyHamster]

Yeah, I would listen to Silver. She knows hamster food and nutrition inside and out. Hazel Hamster is the best you can get in the US. Stick with that. Its not rocket science or anything.

[Mikayla]

I said that. Oxbow has the right percentages for hamsters, so it's good to feed to hamsters, but not gerbils, so...

[Sable-Shepherd]

If you know of any businesses that would like to sell a Syrian & Dwarf hamster food that is eaten at least 90% of if not more, that does not need anything taken out then I'm your girl :mad:

Silver xxx

You don't ship overseas though do you? Honestly I don't know of anyone who'd sell something like that though. Maybe Natures Emporium but you'd be selling to one, maybe both of them that exist in the US. (One here in Burlington, NC and the other is somewhere in Virginia)

Regardless of brand (Which neither Oxbow or Hazel Hamster is 19% protein so once again, Hazel Hamster fails) I can easily boost protein through eggs, mealworms (Which I breed myself, and yes...Make their bedding/diet :rolleyes:), ect. I'm really trying to figure out why people are being so stubborn towards giving me info. If I'm to listen to Silver, then Silver, what foods would you recommend I put into a homemade seed mix TO SUPPLEMENT OXBOW? Better yet, I'd love ideas to get off all crap made by someone who doesn't give a second thought about the well being of my hamster so long as they get my cash. (ie. Supreme or even the makers of Oxbow - They're in it for the money, not because they "like" hamsters and know what is best for them through trial and error) Silver, are you a veterinarian? What are your qualifications to making your own food? Not trying to be rude or anything, but simply curious since your mix seems to be what everyone considers "best" overall but we can't get in the US. People also seem to think a normal human being can't possibly make hamster food so what are your super powers to creating this ideal food? What was your hamster food put through to be considered "complete"? Where did you come up with 19% protein from? I swear I'm here to learn, I just want answers. I'm a stubborn mule, I don't like being told to just buy some food from the store that has chemicals and has to have most of it removed or even with Oxbow, everyone says it's bland and not complete so you should supplement a seed mix but then people tell me that I can't make a seed mix to add to it. You guys ARE making it out as rocket science. Honestly I'm ready to just go buy some bulk seeds and things and go through my own trial and error. This is what I and many others did with Hermit Crabs (Which are ALL wild animals harvested from the beaches, they can't be bred in captivity like hamsters can so we already are more advanced in that area comparing the two) to learn more about how they eat and WHAT they can eat. If we don't think outside of the box, how are we ever to come up with something better? It's bad enough we've backfired our own diets to things like McDonalds and Burger King, why are we doing the same through crappy store bought foods for our animals? Why has fresh foods become such a scary thing to people?? I think we have enough info already on the do's and don'ts of hamster food that I can come up with a mix of known safe items and just swap it up for variety to keep a healthy pet. This seems to be the only option if nobody will give me any info on what to do otherwise that doesn't involve a diet solely bought from the store.

[HollyHamster]

Hazel Hamster isn't crap..........

Honestly, your making it harder than it needs to be.

[Silver]

OK

Firstly you are coming over very cross & rude, not all to me but some of it. To find out answers to your questions it would be better coming from a calm quizzical mind than a angry cross one, catch more fly's with honey.

I like you was fed up with what was on the market & thought why can't they be fed a better diet not with added food colourings & those dam grass pellet's they don't eat.

So I for myself, no one else for my hams I started researching in the U.K, Germany mainly because they had the most information & written papers that with the help of google translate helped me find what % were the best for hams out of all the data I could find. There was no conclusive in actual fact hardly any information that I could find on what vitamins & minerals are best for hams. The consensus was that if fed a varied diet of seeds/grains/nuts/mealworms/egg/pulses that they actually eat with no added colouring or processed biscuit bits then that is the best diet you can give your ham.

So I then had to work my way through what seeds/grains/nuts/pulses/fish/mealworms they can have & what they actually would eat which were two very different things & lots of time testing different ingredients on my then three ham.

After all of that I found a company that has the analysis of lots of different ingredients who could tell me what my mix % was. This needed tweaking lots of times to get the % correct just taking 1g out of one thing & adding 1g of something else made the mix balance.

I then started to feed my hams on my mix's which the thrived on, I had at the time a Hybrid, & two pure WW's. My Hybrid passed from old age at 2 years 3 months after being on my mix from 5 months old. One of my pure WW's was fed on my mix's from 3 months old & he passed at 2 years 3 months also. I have the other WW still with me she was put on my mix's from 3 months & she is 2 years 8 months old & in the last two week's has started to become old & wobbly. I now have a pure C who I had at 5 & a half weeks old which I am also feeding my mix she is now 19 weeks old & doing great.

The reason why adding bits of this & bits of that does not give a good diet is because you are right, taking out the corn & peas changes the % but also adding things does too.

The best advice I could give you would be to feed both oxbro & Hazel Hamster with the corn & peas taken out for diabetes prone hams & add some mealworms to make up for the protein. Is this correct no, but until more manufacturer's come up with food like mine or I can find a company that will make it out there for you then it wont change.

I think I have covered all of your questions if not let me know

Silver xxx

[HollyHamster]

Well said, Silver!!

[Sable-Shepherd]

So you're telling me that GMO ingredients which are just bad in general since it's not real food and we have no idea the possible long term effects of it, BHT which is a chemical known to cause tumors/cancer, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (synthetic vitamin K) which can damage the liver, damage the natural cycle of vitamin K, is toxic in general, can cause anemia, ect, and a variety of dyes which are known to cause health and behavioral problems...Aren't crap? That they are good for your hamster to be eating day after day? ...Then pay for vet bills because they're sick or have tumors all over them?? But no...No possible way they could be from the food, right? Lets feed it to the next one anyways. Sorry, I'm claustrophobic, to be stuck inside a small box just doesn't work for me. I like being free to try new things. If we don't try new things out then how are we suppose to advance on our pets diets for a better life? Are you happy just settling with chemical laced food from the pet store because the animal "survives" on it? Would you prefer a Big Mac and french fries or a homemade diet of baked chicken breast from free ranged, non-steroid/hormone injected chickens, collard greens, black eyed peas, real mashed potatoes and of course some delicious deviled eggs from those healthy chickens? Which do you think will be better for your health?

[HollyHamster]

I would prefer if you lost the attitude.

Silver answered your question and then some. Please take her advice as she is very knowledgeable in this subject matter. If you don't like what she says, then go complain to yourself and not to us. We don't need the drama.

[Sable-Shepherd]

OK

Firstly you are coming over very cross & rude, not all to me but some of it. To find out answers to your questions it would be better coming from a calm quizzical mind than a angry cross one, catch more fly's with honey.

I like you was fed up with what was on the market & thought why can't they be fed a better diet not with added food colourings & those dam grass pellet's they don't eat.

So I for myself, no one else for my hams I started researching in the U.K, Germany mainly because they had the most information & written papers that with the help of google translate helped me find what % were the best for hams out of all the data I could find. There was no conclusive in actual fact hardly any information that I could find on what vitamins & minerals are best for hams. The consensus was that if fed a varied diet of seeds/grains/nuts/mealworms/egg/pulses that they actually eat with no added colouring or processed biscuit bits then that is the best diet you can give your ham.

So I then had to work my way through what seeds/grains/nuts/pulses/fish/mealworms they can have & what they actually would eat which were two very different things & lots of time testing different ingredients on my then three ham.

After all of that I found a company that has the analysis of lots of different ingredients who could tell me what my mix % was. This needed tweaking lots of times to get the % correct just taking 1g out of one thing & adding 1g of something else made the mix balance.

I then started to feed my hams on my mix's which the thrived on, I had at the time a Hybrid, & two pure WW's. My Hybrid passed from old age at 2 years 3 months after being on my mix from 5 months old. One of my pure WW's was fed on my mix's from 3 months old & he passed at 2 years 3 months also. I have the other WW still with me she was put on my mix's from 3 months & she is 2 years 8 months old & in the last two week's has started to become old & wobbly. I now have a pure C who I had at 5 & a half weeks old which I am also feeding my mix she is now 19 weeks old & doing great.

The reason why adding bits of this & bits of that does not give a good diet is because you are right, taking out the corn & peas changes the % but also adding things does too.

The best advice I could give you would be to feed both oxbro & Hazel Hamster with the corn & peas taken out for diabetes prone hams & add some mealworms to make up for the protein. Is this correct no, but until more manufacturer's come up with food like mine or I can find a company that will make it out there for you then it wont change.

I think I have covered all of your questions if not let me know

Silver xxx

As I said, I wasn't trying to be rude. You gave excellent answers. But if you can do this, why can't I too? I have access to nutritional data and have no problem working trial and error on my own pet. I have had plans to get more too who can be test subjects, no problem. But when I'm told by people that I CAN'T do it, that makes no sense to me. All pet store foods are is a mix of ingredients, why can't I make a mix of ingredients to figure out what is going to be the best protein/fat/fiber/sugar for my hamster and have it do ok?

[Sable-Shepherd]

Ok, then no attitude, why are those ingredients ok to be in Hazel Hamster or any animals food? Studies on these ingredients are done on small animals like hamsters, why should I ignore the results?

[Sable-Shepherd]

I'm asking honest questions, if someone has a logical answer for why it's ok in the food then I'll be willing to learn more. An eased mind certainly wouldn't do any harm but I'll tell ya, I've got a lot of fear of these ingredients and the issues with GMO foods due to my research.

[HollyHamster]

I have been feeding Hazel Hamster and my hamsters have never been healthier. Their coats are softer, and even shinier than when I brought them home from the pet store. I go by what I see in my hamsters. Not by what a bunch of overpaid people who torture animals for a living do.

[Silver]

You can,

When I told a certain group of people what I was planning to do they were horrified!, oh no it can not be done.

I was told that you can not feed a hamster enough fiber without the grass pellets it's just not doable full stop even though the pellets were not being touched, that you need to leave them in the food because they regulate them self's as to if they need to eat fiber they will eat them. In my opinion that did not sound right to me, they don't eat something because they don't like it not because they think they have eaten enough fiber.

In my own research I found out that the pellets are too solid a fiber for there tummy's to digest it goes round & round for a long time before it is digested & if something was in my tummy like that I would have a tummy ache in my opinion lol

So I quietly went away for a year & this was a year almost solidly doing my research because I am housebound spend a lot of time on the net anyway I decided to dedicate this time to trying to find things the hams would eat.

I found the mix's then you have to find someone to make & sell it. That was/is not easy I can tell you either as company's will only make 25,000 bags in one go nothing less!. So mine are being sold on the net with no profits coming to me what so ever as this at the moment is the only way I can get the mix's out there.

Then it was telling people that they can try the mix's, get peoples head's around the mix being very different from whats for sale at the moment.

What you need to do is some dedicated research, finding the analysis of each ingredient & make the mix's as varied as you can.

All the energy you are using being cross about this problem is wasted because it makes no difference if you are cross nothing will change unless people start making better food, getting the word out about it & people voting with there feet & stop buying the commercial mix's & buy the better food

Silver xxx

[Silver]

Ok, then no attitude, why are those ingredients ok to be in Hazel Hamster or any animals food? Studies on these ingredients are done on small animals like hamsters, why should I ignore the results?

They may be, they may not be. The only way you will find the answers to this is if you do the research & find the answres for yourself

Silver xxx

[Silver]

I'm asking honest questions, if someone has a logical answer for why it's ok in the food then I'll be willing to learn more. An eased mind certainly wouldn't do any harm but I'll tell ya, I've got a lot of fear of these ingredients and the issues with GMO foods due to my research.

Again,

The answers to your questions is in doing some research for your self.

Silver xxx

[Silver]

Sorry also to add, when you are finding data for the ingredients it is best to get that data from the actual ingredients you are using not just generally.

As I found out take bran sticks, they vary from each company that makes the. Odd isn't it lol

Silver xxx

[Sable-Shepherd]

I have been feeding Hazel Hamster and my hamsters have never been healthier. Their coats are softer, and even shinier than when I brought them home from the pet store. I go by what I see in my hamsters. Not by what a bunch of overpaid people who torture animals for a living do.

SMH. I'll leave it at that.

@Silver, I've actually done my research on the harmfulness of the ingredients and things sourced that are GMO. I was looking more from HollyHamster, I don't take "well my animal is living still" as proof of something being ok. If she has any info that goes against everything I've read, that being that they're harmful, then I'd like to know about them because I can't find it. I don't think research should be some hush hush thing that you don't share with someone else looking for it. If she has something that states otherwise then what harm will it do to share with me? I'm very open minded, if studies found it's not harmful then I'd be more willing to give it a try.

I appreciate your time to discuss this with me, maybe words are coming off as harsh without a way to hear the tone. I don't plan to mass make any kind of food any time soon, if ever. Mostly looking for something I can make for my babies. Guess my best bet is to just go off recommended ratios and start plugging in different things into the nutritional database to see what I can come up with. And I will go by each brand of ingredient I choose, thank you. :)

[Silver]

It's ok I know you was cross at the situation rather than us, like you say the way words are written dose not show the tone of voice you would use or body language.

Famous last words not looking to mass produce just want it for your baby's that's how I started out!.

I truly only made the food for my hams because I totally fell in love with them & wanted to improve there life, them the company I was getting my ingredients from asked if I wanted my recipes on there website & it ran away with it's self from there.

many times I wish I had not done it for others to buy because it does not stop at there for sale, there is info people want, questions & problems that come up.

If I knew then what I know now I would probably of kept it to myself to be honest. Then you get a good day when someone & there hams are happy & you think, perhaps it's not so bad after all lol

Silver xxx

[Biscotti]

Sable: Sent you a PM. :)