Genetics questions - What to do with Black (aa)?

[Gust0o]

As we continue to think about breeding Wesley, I thought it would be time for some out-loud musings - because every time I look at Hamsterlopaedia I seem to come away with more questions!

Right, starting from the beginning - we have Wesley, who is Black (aa), but who carries Golden - first question, how does Golden interact with that gene? As this is the default hamster colour, is it always carried? Is (aa) still a sufficient descriptor, or are characters needing adding?

The reason for knowing this feeds into my second question. Black, from doing some research, seems to feed into a number of colours - Chocolate-Black (aabb), Dove (aapp) and Melanistic Yellow (aaTo/aaToTo). The question being, how would Golden interact with any of these potentials, in that case?

Am I right in assuming the litter would be split between the colourings?

Am just trying to get it straight in my head :oops:

[Spuds Mum]

Okey dokey then Gus...
we never refer to a hamster as carrying golden - its the wild type and so is 'carried' if you like by every hamster. So Wes is black (aa).

I've looked over Topaz's pedigree, which of course is the same as Wes's being sisters, and it looks as though you pretty much have a pure black there - certainly in the previous four generations it looks like there is nothing there but golden or black. I can tell a little further back than just looking at that pedigree because Wes's grandad, Victor, came from the same litter as our Vala, and so I also checked her pedigree too. She is a pure golden, so we know she carries nothing else, meaning that it is unlikely any recessive genes would have come from that side.

There are some names on the other sides that I am not sure of, but the ones I do know were either black or golden. It is less likely then (though not impossible) that Wes is carrying anything apart from her black. Most of her ancestors were also SH so again she may carry longhair from further back, but not too likely.

Your question about how golden interacts is an interesting one, being a default colour, if Wes had babies by a hamster who wasn't compatible with her type (aa) then babies would default back to golden (just as in my current litter, they have defaulted back!) Ok then - short and snappy - what would you get if Mummy was Wes (aa) and Daddy was:

aabb chocolate black
all black pups carrying the rust gene (b) genotype aaBb

aapp dove
all black pups carrying the cinnamon gene (p) genotype aaPp

aaToY melanistic yellow male

50% black male pups genotype aa
50% black tortoiseshell pups genotype aaToto

so basically, apart from that pesky complicated yellow gene, you are likely to get black pups from any of the above combinations! :D

[Gust0o]

I've looked over Topaz's pedigree, which of course is the same as Wes's being sisters, and it looks as though you pretty much have a pure black there

That's what I was hoping! It certainly makes it a lot easier for me! :)

In terms of trying to create any of the colour combinations discussed, I'm assuming it would be down to the individual genetics involved - but, if reasonably 'pure' Cinnamons/Yellows/Rusts could be obtained, then they would produce those colours - on an approx. 1:1 basis?

[Spuds Mum]

Well, using one of the previous examples - say dove.

At a first mating with a dove, Wes would produce the blacks carrying cinnamon.

To get dove babies -
You would then need to find either another dove or a black carrying cinnamon to mate to one of the children
(you would get roughly half dove and half black if you used a dove, 25% dove if you used another black carrying cinnamon).

If it was those torts that are doing it for you Gus, you would as I discussed get a combination at a first mating of Wes to a melanistic yellow - and I do have a feeling that a breeder I know of yellows and mel. yellows will be having a litter shortly. pm me if you wanted more details!

[Holly]

Interesting stuff - I'm doing the same as you, Gus - well sort of as I'm starting with my Dove Aero and will be having a litter of Dove babies with Sheryl's Kookai - THEN getting a Black from Sheryl to maybe mate to one of the offspring.

I don't know if you like patterned hamsters but another option to consider is Dom Spot - Black Spots are stunning, that is what Will is hoping to do with Who Hams :wink:

[Matty Day]

so is it safe to do back to back dove matings ?

[Holly]

Yes, perfectly - it's the only way to get an all Dove litter. As Dove only appears in very small proportions in litters of Black carrying Dove (something ridiculous like 6 and quarter percent I think) it's the commonest way of breeding Doves, I believe.

[Matty Day]

if dove is standardized i might be tempted by some as a second show line :x [/code]

[Gust0o]

Well, we were trying to start with the basics, Holly - but have become distracted amongst all the options!

Spud, I've PM'ed you about the Melanistic Yellows - I'm inclined to find out as much as I can :)

[Gust0o]

Right, I know what I'm doing now :)

Thanks for the help, all! :D