Breeding Syrians

[Tammy22]

Hi everyone,

most of you probably already know that i breed Roborovski hamsters and have been for the last 6 or 7 years.

I had always kept Syrian hamsters since i was very young, only one at a time but i loved all of them very much.

When i got my first pair of Roborovskis it was very refreshing to have hamsters other than Syrians, because of the fact that they were so different in personality and behaviour, and also because they could live together harmoniously (most of the time, lol!) I loved watching them interact with each other and i soon got another pair!

After thinking that i might want to breed Roborovskis it took me about a year and half to decide that i was definately going to go ahead with breeding them. During this time i did as much research as i could (although there wasnt very much info about Roborovskis at that time!), managed to obtain plenty of cages, tanks, hamster accessories etc. and also managed to locate as many responsible and experienced Roborovski breeders as i could.

Once i obtained my first few unrelated Roborovskis, paired them up, and eventually had my first litter, i was absolutely hooked, and i soon realised that all the time i had spent preparing was well worth it!

Anyway, getting to the point! For the past two years i have been seriously thinking about starting to breed Syrian hamsters. I have read everything i can get hold of, read everything on the net i can find and read everything i can find about genetics and colours.

I understand all about the main ethics of hamster breeding from breeding Roborovskis such as the importance of only breeding from hamsters from very good lines with detailed genetical backgrounds, keeping the hamsters healthy, care and feeding of pregnant females etc. etc. Also, I have enough time, money, cages, accessories etc.

I think i have learned alot from my research and i fully understand that breeding Syrians is different to breeding Roborovskis, as there are so many different genes involved, but i really am willing to learn as much as i can, and i definately dont want to rush into anything!

I think i understand the basics about how dominant and recessive genes work and i understand about the lethal genes and the genes which are not recommended to be mixed. but i am still having trouble identifying certain colours and i am still very confused with the shear number of genes there are out there and how they all interact - i find it all very overwhelming!

I am so worried about finally going ahead and then making a giant mistake! :cry:

So, i was really looking for as many helpful hints as possible and i also wanted to know the best way to begin breeding Syrians?? I understand that first and foremost the hamsters should be from very good lines and be 100% healthy, at the correct age for breeding, but i would also like to know which colours are best to begin with etc. and which breeder to obtain my first breeding hamsters from?

I know that one of the things i should have done by now is to contact some breeders for information and experience, but, to be honest, i am a bit scared about the reaction i might receive!! :oops: :( - i really want people to understand that i am very serious about doing all of this in the best way possible!

Please be kind to me :) it was a big step for me to write this post and i am sorry it is so long! but i just wanted to explain as much as possible.

Any help is most welcome!

Kind Regards,

Tammy x

[Matty Day]

well im also new to breeding syrains as i have deiced to breed them as well as keeping breeding my chinese hams :wink:

the advice i have been given as it is best to start out with sh creams or goldens as they are not to hard to keep and if you get good ones do well in shows.

hope that helps im sure some one more expreinced than me will give you some btter advice :x

[Spuds Mum]

Hi Tammy,

I'm sure that you haven't taken this decision without doing plenty of research as you said, so everyone will be very kind to you I'm sure and give as much help as we can. You have a broad range of breeders and knowledge on the forum, so I'm sure you will get lots of help with your questions.

It is often recommended to start with a simple and robust colour, and cream seems to be one that many hamster breeders start with. It is a charming colour, and, if you were planning on showing, does very well in shows, with a long showing life. It is also compatible with other colours, such as sable, giving you options should you wish to produce a mixed litter of pups. Plus there are some wonderful cream hamsters being bred by breeders such as Bourne Valley, and Tristar, Carrington and others, as well as from newer breeders too. some of these newer breeders are on the forum too, Basia has just had a cream litter, and Holly has two litters due shortly, and our own Mollz is planning a litter from her Tristar girl Amelie shortly!

Good luck with it, I am sure you will find it a different experience from breeding your robos, but just as rewarding :D

[Mollz]

Hi Tammy.

I had exactly the same feelings and worries to you when I first considered breeding (about the big breeders not liking me doing it etc.), but I have to say that I was wrong and the best thing to do is have a good long chat to any of the larger breeders.

As for the best colour to start with, well it could be argued that any colours are good to start with, but to be honest I would try to avoid anything complicated such as colours made up of many different reccessive genes (e.g. blue mink or copper). In my opinion, I think starting with a cream line is ideal as from this you can incorperate red eyed cream, black eyed cream, mink and sable and then add on different coat lenghts/types and patterns (e.g. roan). There are also always plenty of well bred creams about that come from long lines of show winning hamsters. Saying this, there are also many other colours about that can be mixed with different colours to produce several combinations as well.

As for where to source your hamsters from, if you are looking for seriously good show hamster you would want to go to Tristar or Bourne Valley or other well known show breeders (sorry I can't for the life of me remember the names of any more). As well as this there are a fair few people who breed hamsters from Bourne Valley/Tristar/Other big breeder hamsters on here and these hamsters should be good fro breeding too. I know that Basia, Holly and some others have litters or ones that are dues within the next few weeks. I myself have been very lucky to get a beautiful girl from Tristar who is looking to have lots of potential for showing, and she will be having babies in the summer which should be good showers and very good for breeding :wink:

I know you are worried about mistakes - it's a though tthat worries me all the time, but there really aren't that many mistakes that you can make as long as you have done your research. Do you know about the Wh gene? I won't bother explaining in case you already do, but mating two hamsters with this is one of the only/biggest mistake you can make. Have you got the Hamsteriopedia? This is brilliant for learning genetices. I would also reccomend: http://hometown.aol.com/theriverrd/genetics.htm

I really am not very experienced and I am sure that others will have more/better advice for you. Please don't worry about asking questions though.

[Tammy22]

Thanks for the replies so far - they are great and very reassuring too!

I am glad there are other relative beginners too!

Looks like you all recommend Creams to start with.

Do breeders have certain lines which are stictly one colour? and have been for many generations? Is it possible for a line to be one colour for many generations, without other colours cropping up?

Mollz, I know about the White bellied Gene and also that it cant be bred with the Roan either, but the more i read about it the more i am convinced that it would be easy to make a mistake as it is not always obvious that a hamster carries these genes, and also that many colours can carry the gene??

I have read and re read many times the River Rd site and find it very interesting, but very confusing at times too.

I have not read that book, but i have heard about it, where is the best place to get it?

Thanks again everyone!

Tammy x

[Basia]

Hi Tammy,
I know you have been to some shows so I would say have a look at the syrians and see what colours you like and then talk to the breeders and ask their advice. I have found them all to be very friendly and keen to help.
Good luck.
Gill

You can order the book from Towy Vale's website. Pete & Chris at Towy Vale are co-authors. It is also on Amazon and I have seen it in P@H.

[Bunsey]

i'd say go with a robust colour, too, such as golden, cream, cinnamon. depending on what colour you really like. i like creams and sables and they're compatable and robust, so that's what i'm going to start with, putting in a roan pattern for variety. I also have a cream male that i wanted a cinnamon for, as he carries cinnie, but can't find one for the life of me!

[Holly]

It's interesting that you feel nervous approaching people here for advice on breeding Syrians, Tammy - despite being an experienced robo breeder and obviously someone who's thought it through beforehand. I have a feeling that may be because you've seen the very negative responses on other forums to prospective breeders :?

Whilst most of us here (well all of us really!) are very against the kind of irresponsible breeding that we read about quite often most people here are far more open to helping people who are serious do it right (I'm trying not to sound pompous here, I really hope it's not coming over like that :oops: ). Indeed several of us have been shouted down for trying to help people who have already mated their hamsters - pretty stupid in my view if the deed is already done :roll:

Anyway I'd agree with the others really - I'd say:
1) Start small - numbers can soon creep up. If you are starting your own "line" stick with one colour (or compatible colours like Cream and Sable for example) to start with.

2) Go to shows and study the hamsters there. Look at colours and, more importantly, type - see if you can sit near the judge and learn what they are looking for.

3)Try to get the best first hamster/s you can - even if you have to wait for them it will be worth the wait, though you may not need to as there should soon be lots of littes at this time of year. I have found all the show breeders incredibly helpful - you live close to Andrew Bryan, I'm sure he'd be happy to help advise you.

4)Read as much as you can - as well as Hamsterlopaedia I found The New Hamster Handbook by James McKay and The Right Way to Keep Hamsters by Roy Robinson and David Baglin full of helpful tips. Both are older books but they are very comprehensive.

Good luck with your new venture :)

[Tammy22]

Hi Holly,

Yes, i think the reason i feel so nervous is because i have seen other replies to people who have asked about breeding.

I do it myself though! Everyday i get people emailing me asking questions about breeding hamsters and the first thing i usually say to them is that they cant just rush into it, they need to do alot of research first.

So i suppose, i dont just want to add to the emails in someone elses inbox, the emails which the person is probably sick of receiving!

Most of the questions about breeding which i get are either stupid or from people who have already rushed into without thinking at all! I have so many come in each day that i have written out a complete answer about all of the things which can go wrong if you dont do it all in the correct way - hopefully it stops many people who are just about to buy a male and female from the same pet shops and keep them together hoping for babies!

But, it also has an effect on me too! Each time i send it to someone i end up reading it and then i get worried that i am going to end up making a mistake too!


I dont mean to bragg, but i do see myself as an 'experienced' breeder of Roborovskis, but in my oppinion this only helps me with the basics of Syrian breeding and i feel that breeding Syrians is going to be much more confusing!

I am so greatful for all of the friendly responses and i am going to try and find all of the books which are mentioned too.

Kind Regards,

Tammy x

[Holly]

Well I'm certainly no expert but I've learned a few things over the past year and half - if you want to PM any queries to me I'll be happy to help or find someone to help you, Tammy :) (in return you can tell us all about robos and rabbits :P ).

As you are obviously serious about doing it right I can't imagine anyone of the breeding experts here would mind helping you. Will you be at any shows?

[Bourne Valley Hams]

Whenever I hear of people rushing in to breed Syrian hamsters I always tell the story of a rescue I had to do a couple of years ago. A woman had agreed to let her daughters mate their two female hamsters with a friends male as they assured her that lots of their friends wanted baby hamsters.
Both females had about a dozen babies. A few homes were found but nowhere near enough. She contacted me the week before Christmas when the babies were about 7 weeks old and seriously squabbling. Of course they didn't have enough cages and could not separate the fighting babies - she had small groups in buckets and tubs and the bath even and was just tearing her hair out. We took in the remaining 17 babies, who were in rather a sorry state with scratches and bites everywhere - fortunately we had the spare cages to split them up but still had more cages in our dining room than we would have liked to have over Christmas! Naturally most of the girls were pregnant as they had not split the sexes, so by New Year we had 63 hamsters to rehome - just because of that one thoughtless family.

[Holly]

That's awful - but sadly a common story on most of the forums. You try to tell (stupid) people stories like this and usually they don't want to hear it and they won't listen. :(

Tammy you re a different kettle of fish altogether :wink:

[Bunsey]

yeah, i think that happens a lot. kids say "yeah i'll have one" and then the parents say no.

That happened to me when i was at school and had baby guinea pigs (a "breeder" sold us a mixed pair!!). all my mates said they'd have one, which was about 10 homes, but in the end not one of them actually took one as they hadn't asked their parents. i kept all the guinea pigs myself.

on an unrelated note, i wasn't very good at building separate runs for them and the runs fell down and they all mated and i had 19 guinea pigs in the end, after re-homing a few. All but one of the homes i found ended up re-homing them again without telling me until afterwards.

[Matty Day]

well im glad to say that i have lined up homes for all mine

i think i have a small litter anway but i am prepared just in case i have a big one :x

ive got homes for four babys so far but only 2 are definent.

and im putting an ad in the local paper and if there are any left they will be going down to a good pet shop that i trust :x

and seperatoin wise i currently dont have enought cages but ive got forty quid to go get some cages for seperatoin tomorrow :wink:

[Bourne Valley Hams]

well im glad to say that i have lined up homes for all mine

i think i have a small litter anway but i am prepared just in case i have a big one :x

ive got homes for four babys so far but only 2 are definent.

and im putting an ad in the local paper and if there are any left they will be going down to a good pet shop that i trust :x

and seperatoin wise i currently dont have enought cages but ive got forty quid to go get some cages for seperatoin tomorrow :wink:

I'm sure they will get snapped up if you bring them to a show Matty!! :D

[Bunsey]

be careful about advertising in the paper. know what you'll say if some unsuitable looking person turns up. i know it's rude, but you want the best homes for the babies.

i advertised my robos online with e-mail only contact and that way i could tell people politely to do one without having to face them!

i turned down hundreds of people. maybe i'm just picky, but i wouldn't sell them singularly, wouldn't sell to people with cages i didn't like and wouldn't sell to people who kept asking about prices of things, as i thought they'll be too stingy to take them to the vet! if you can't pay £10 for a pair of hams then you're not gonna pay £13 for a vet appointment! i wouldn't sell to anyone i suspected would breed them either (e.g. if they already breed pet shop hams)

[Tammy22]

Sue,

i completely understand your concerns, but i am well prepared so that if and when i do start to breed Syrians, i can cope with all of them, even if i dont sell them by the time they need separating into single cages - i have alot of spare cages because i am always prepared incase my Roborovskis are not social and need splitting, and i am always prepared for any Roborovskis which need to be returned to me for any reason - as it states on my website and as they are told when they purchase from me - no hamsters should be sold on or given away - they shouls always be returned to me.

When i first started breeding Roborovskis i didnt have homes lined up, but once i had been doing it for a while and people had recommended me i always had a waiting list. I have a long waiting list at the moment too! No babies this year yet though!!

I already have a few people who have contacted me because they have been told that my Roborovskis are good quality, but they want Syrians and have asked me if i breed them - so i think i will have some homes for them to go to, but i will advertise aswell.


Bunsey,

i completely agree with being careful about people answering adverts, i have had some very stupid people answering my adverts, but after a while i think it quite easy to judge them just by their first email!

I too have turned away many people because i just wouldnt let my hamsters go to them, especially people who email me asking for a male and female!! or people asking me to deliver to them before they have even seen the babies - or worse, to ship them!!

If you are too picky, them i am too, lol! :wink:


Tammy x

[Bourne Valley Hams]

Sue,

i completely understand your concerns, but i am well prepared so that if and when i do start to breed Syrians, i can cope with all of them, even if i dont sell them by the time they need separating into single cages - i have alot of spare cages because i am always prepared incase my Roborovskis are not social and need splitting, and i am always prepared for any Roborovskis which need to be returned to me for any reason - as it states on my website and as they are told when they purchase from me - no hamsters should be sold on or given away - they shouls always be returned to me.



I wasn't having a go at you at all Tammy - please don't think I was! :cry:
I know you will be very responsible about breeding - my comment was just to make a point that some people just don't think about what they are taking on.

Sue

[Matty Day]

I am going to be careful but i am going to let the girls go on there own as female Chinese can be very aggressive towards cage mates. Male’s I will sell as pairs if there are any left over i want one so does another forum member.

and I am not going to automatically reject someone because they want to breed im just going to bombard them with questions about it to access it they really know what they are doing :wink:

as after all this is my first litter and i specifically asked for a male when i got in touch with the breeder who I got my male Chinese of

and Tammy would you not let any of your babies got to breeders even experienced ones thought I would ask :lol:

[Tammy22]

Sue,

i didnt think you were :) i just dont mind explaining that i really am serious about doing it correctly :)

Matty,

Yes, i would let my babies got to experienced breeders, i already have done, Andrew Bryan has one of my babies and i have one of his, and NooBoo has one of my babies too :) - if they are definately responsible breeders then i dont mind at all, but people who email me asking for a male and female from the same litter really get on my nerves as they obviously havent even learned the basics!!

Tammy x

[Matty Day]

I'm sure they will get snapped up if you bring them to a show Matty!! :D

i am afraid not as there no sales table at north somerset and they will be to young for monmouth.

i cant sell them at the show unless anyone wants to do an underhand sale at a show but i only do that for forum members as i know i can trust people from this forum in the fact that they know what they are doing :wink: :wink:

[Bourne Valley Hams]

[quote="Bourne Valley Hams":1cntxar3]

I'm sure they will get snapped up if you bring them to a show Matty!! :D

i am afraid not as there no sales table at north somerset and they will be to young for monmouth.

i cant sell them at the show unless anyone wants to do an underhand sale at a show but i only do that for forum members as i know i can trust people from this forum in the fact that they know what they are doing :wink: :wink:[/quote:1cntxar3]

Hmm - true. Though I do know of a BVH dwarf breeder who may be looking for a boy or two for display work. :D
There is always either Blenheim or Romsey at the end of May.

[Bunsey]

the reason i wouldn't sell my robos to be bred is because they were an accidental litter from a pet shop pair. when i breed my syrians, i would even prefer them to go to people on this forum who will breed them, because i know they are responsible ham owners. most members of the public never contact you again, but club members can let you see photos etc.

my hams will be for sale at shurdington in october, assuming there's sales there! it's a shame they will be just too young for rotherham. Phoebe will be too young to mate in time for them to be ready by 7th september..... but if i got a slightly older female for Harvey, her babes could be ready by rotherham. i haven't got anyone lined up but i'll be on the look out at brockholes.... although a lot of people aren't going because it's the monmouth... (ignore me i'm talking to myself) :lol:

[Yaffle]

Hi Tammy,

I think anyone that reads your posts will be able to tell that you are serious about the responsibilities surrounding breeding and very well informed so stop worrying about how you will be perceived, everyone on the forum is brilliant and really supportive!

I had my first litter in January and my main concern was finding good homes for the pups but I needn't have worried, they all went to great homes including Spuds Mum. Being a member of the forum is a great way to find propective homes and the fact that you have such a good reputation with the robo's is brilliant, I know that I wouldn't have any reservations whatsoever about taking a pup from you - that's if I would meet your high standards for re-homing :lol:

But really, I think it's great that you vet potential new owners, and I'm sure that any syrian litter that you have will be perfect, and it's like other people have said, as long as you stick to straight forward colours (my first litter was cinnamon) and you're well prepared, there's not too much that can go wrong :wink:

[suga]

Hi Tammy - I know absolutely nothing about breeding hamsters, but I wanted to say its great that you have posted this tread. I don't have the time or resource to get involved in breeding but do read the posts in this section with interest and I guess if I'm reading, then others are reading and maybe its being read by people who are considering doing it too and hopefully everyone is learning something from this, which is good news.

I wish you lots of luck with your venture and if you do decide to breed then I can't wait to see the flicks of the babies :D

[Tammy22]

Thanks Suga and nice to meet you!

Thanks Claire,

you are so kind :) - and of course you could have a pup if you wanted one! I saw some of your lovely hamsters at Alcester :)


Bunsey, i might be looking for a new hamster :D in the not too distant future! but you are not too far from me, so i won't have to wait for a show!!

If i meet your high standards, of course!

Tammy x