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View Full Version : Colour Question - Take 2 (photos!)

Moosley
03-25-2008, 07:35 AM
This is a 7th generation baby from the 'Moo' line, though from an accidental litter! I swear we have never had a female get pregnant at 5.5 weeks old but this one AND her sister both did.

....

Mum is a 'LBJ' and dad I suspect is an Umbrous 'LBJ' or black. I am only guessing the male, there were two in the litter, one black/lbj and one sable.

....

Grand parents are a Satin Dove Tortoiseshell and a Satin Umbrous 'LBJ'.

....

G,G, Grandparents are a Satin Chocolate, a Umbrous LBJ, another LBJ and Homozygous SG.

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Weird I know and I think its right from memory. The litter consists of 1 x Sable, 1 x Dove, 3 x Blacks/Umbrous LBJs and 1x thing...

The 'thing' we assumed was a chocolate! Its darker and much richer brown than the dove which itself is fairly dark for a dove. It is, however, a lot lighter than our LBJs who all have black eyes. The eyes are more claret than red but I have no idea what colour the baby is?

I guess it can only be a very dark dove but the difference between our dove and the 'thing' is huge, it really does look like a chocolate with red eyes!

Any ideas?

Ok, I finally have photos! The female *does* have red eyes though I suspect now it is WB Gene as her eyes are more like my Sable Roans, glow red in the light and have a red tinge to them but look very dark, almost like our cinnies eyes.

The original litter:

Ghost Yellow/BEC (Female) (she has one LBJ baby)
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/hammyratlet/000babyhamsters060.jpg

LBJ (Female) (This is 'mummy')
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/hammyratlet/000babyhamsters053.jpg

Satin Umbrous LBJ (male)
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/hammyratlet/000babyhamsters057.jpg

*double?* Satin Sable (male)
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/hammyratlet/000babyhamsters059.jpg

Babies:

Sable:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/hammyratlet/000babyhamsters042.jpg

Umbrous LBJ:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/hammyratlet/000babyhamsters046.jpg

Dove:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/hammyratlet/000babyhamsters040.jpg

'Thingy': (notice its red eyes!)
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/hammyratlet/000babyhamsters049.jpg

The Dove and the 'Thingy' together (now the eyes look dark on photo but looked like they had a red glow to me still)
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/hammyratlet/000babyhamsters052.jpg

I suppose she could still be a really weird/poor dove with a random mixture of genes that makes her look a bit weird?
Spuds Mum
03-25-2008, 10:17 AM
Hmm there is quite a mix of genes in that pool Moosely!! :shock:

I think the best thing to do is to wait until eyes are properly open and post a piccie (plus pics of siblings and Mum and poss Dads). It is going to be hard with the mix you've described to be able to quickly give an answer on your description alone!

Sounds very interesting though! :D
Bourne Valley Hams
03-25-2008, 11:10 AM
The presence of the silver grey, which the LBJ's come out of leads me to suspect it could be Blue Mink? UUeeppsgsg. Or maybe some sort of copper? UUeebbpp.
Although with the mixture in the background it is unlikely to be a good example of whatever you decide it is!! :lol:
nooboo
03-25-2008, 11:34 AM
i didnt think there was a blue mink silver grey var. only dark grey! ah well....pictures and time will help!
Spuds Mum
03-25-2008, 12:36 PM
Okay, so I'll admit Im a learner - and as most of you know, I am really interested in genetics and such. If these LBJs are thrown out from Silver grey lines, do you mean from pure sg lines? or is there a specific genotype for these? What Im asking is, are LBJs genetically sgsg, but are some sort of altered sgsg, or are they sgsg---- ie silver grey with something?

What would be the advantages/disadvantages of breeding from these? I'm just curious Im afraid, especially when considering the litter Moosley describes. :D
Bourne Valley Hams
03-25-2008, 04:36 PM
Okay, so I'll admit Im a learner - and as most of you know, I am really interested in genetics and such. If these LBJs are thrown out from Silver grey lines, do you mean from pure sg lines? or is there a specific genotype for these? What Im asking is, are LBJs genetically sgsg, but are some sort of altered sgsg, or are they sgsg---- ie silver grey with something?

What would be the advantages/disadvantages of breeding from these? I'm just curious Im afraid, especially when considering the litter Moosley describes. :D

The LBJ's seem to have been an Andrew Bryan special!!
He once gave me a hamster he thought was chocolate which gradually changed colour over the following weeks and when mated produced a litter of silver greys, black eyed whites and these dark chocolaty things that became known as LBJs.
Ever since then anything in that line, particularly the whites has thrown out LBJs. Infact I have a litter from a sh bew in the nest now which appear to be prodominantly LBJ!
Spuds Mum
03-25-2008, 04:43 PM
wow - so I guess there is definitely something going on there!

and Im guessing that it is possible that the pup in question (sorry I dont like referring to it as a thing :? ) may well be a non-umbrous LBJ itself??

Is that a possibility maybe? I am intrigued! :D
Moosley
03-26-2008, 06:34 AM
I will have to get photos, its at the stage where it *can* open its eyes but screws them shut again when it sees me :? Im not that scarey!!

Its lighter than our LBJs, the mum is a Non Umbrous LBJ and that is hugely different to the Umbrous LBJ which is almost impossible to tell from a black, only if you breed it or know its out of an umbrous LBJ can you tell what it is.

Our original male Onyx was bought as a black and so he covered all our Torts and threw out bizarre babies that didnt make sense (sables kept cropping up when they shouldnt). It took Kat ages to work out what he was! Now we have his son who is getting on for 3? 3.5 now.

We bred our first LBJ female thinking she was a chocolate too but that didn't work either. I dont like LBJs just because it confuses me so much, i'm sticking to light colours now. Give me my yellows and honeys and cinnies! These are all Kats now.
Moosley
03-27-2008, 06:12 AM
Bah, I looked at it again last night and in a very cute ways its just boring :roll: It *is* a LBJ and has dark eyes, it must have the WB gene as its eyes do glow red but I have no idea where that came from!

I think Kat wants to keep her and the dove from that litter anyway.
souffle
03-27-2008, 12:26 PM
Bah, I looked at it again last night and in a very cute ways its just boring :roll:
Aww moosley none of them are boring. They are all perfect and unique in their own ways :lol:
Moosley
03-27-2008, 12:47 PM
Boring = colour i'm not interested in :wink:

I wanting to be something really exciting haha!

Nah, no hamster is boring, whatever colour! I used to find goldens quite boring but now im picking up more on the quality, i tend to see that before judging on colour. Except FEWs I cant make myself like the colour :roll:
Bunsey
03-27-2008, 12:54 PM
there are a few colours i dislike. I know they are most likely lovely personalities, but some colours i'd never have, such as REWs, albino anything or argente campbells. i've never been keen on goldens, but now i have one i think she's stunning. i don't like umbrous golden, but i wouldn't say i'd never have one if it was a rescue.
Moosley
04-01-2008, 07:15 AM
*bump* (see original post)
nooboo
04-01-2008, 07:23 AM
looks like a baby mink to me, would be interesting to know if it does start to orange with age.

i tend to find that the darker the fur colour the darker the red of the eyes, which would be why they are so deep already as its a good deep colour.

lets face it if you have a dove and you have sables it could just be a nice mink baby, maybe with silver grey playing a part, but maybe not.
Moosley
04-01-2008, 10:01 AM
*bashes head on the wall*

I didnt even consider mink!! :oops: Come to think of it... it might have slight eyerings too :lol:
Spuds Mum
04-01-2008, 10:10 AM
I think Mink too Moosely and can see eye rings on the photo! It fits in with the genetics of the pups you have there.
Moosley
04-01-2008, 10:18 AM
Bah! I'd better not tell Kat ;) She'll want to keep that one too :lol: :roll: She is already keeping the Dove as well as the Dove Tort Dom Spot in my litter lol, I love all over my babies but nothing is really standing out to me yet so suspect I'll sell them all. Still kicking myself for my mistakes. Might keep the male Cinnie to run on and if he gets really nice... you never know... lol i dont need a male cinnie but maybe if i keep a female from Tango and Fantas litter.... ok too far ahead now!